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Ooh! Story time!
Probably one of (not the, just one of*) the darkest "good-guy" moments I've had as a player was when my (predominantly good) ranger captured an orc scout.
After using him to gain (some little) information on the invading army, I spoke with him and explained that we needed to execute him honorably... we simply had no time for anything else.
He was too loyal to either let him free or travel with us as our bound prisoner - and we weren't going to cruelly leave him bound to starve or thirst to death.
I explained that I did this with no malice against him or his people (and, in fact, we had no quarrel with them beyond their own agression) and, while I was unhappy he didn't cooperate, I could respect and appreciate his reasons for doing so. I asked him if he was willing to die for his cause.
He simply narrowed his eyes, and lay his head on the stone for me to lop off. (Given that it's effectively a Coup de Grace with a Halberd, which maximized the damage roll, it worked.)
That was... exceedingly harsh, and something my character regretted having to do, but literally had no other choice - we were on a time-restrained mission and (he saw) no other way: none of us were enchanters, or super-diplomats (the highest diplomacy character was a tiefling; our bard was currently "kidnapped"), and we were unable to convince him of anything.
* An equally dark, if not darker "good-guy" moment was when my character in Kingmaker effectively charmed the evil blood-sucking dancing lady and, as I was giving her a back massage, managed to coup de grace her just as she was starting to think there might be something more to me than just my blood (we were reading each other's minds, and I made some amazing bluff checks to avoid thinking conscious thoughts about "problematic" elements... like my character's wife...).
* Or there was the time that my chaotic good ninja assassin totally sacrificed that one evil dude to a super-mad ghost in order to save everyone, since that one evil dude had murdered the ghost earlier!
* Or there was the time when a character of mine seduced an evil (literally, not figuratively) underground part-drow "queen", infiltrate her good graces, set her various evil advisers against each other, and then - with the help of my team-mates - cause lots of collateral damage, but blamed it on various officials' tempers' flaring, and, after a few public executions for rebellion, assassinated one adviser, captured and (via our shapechanging party member) imitated another to take down the queen, and killed the last adviser in combat after he came back from a raid (a raid he'd gone on, after which he'd been publicly shamed into taking everyone alive instead of killing them, and thus losing "valuable property"). After all that, the queen and the one remaining adviser had their minds slightly altered (becoming permanent allies with us), were "put back in charge", and the corrupt advisers were replaced with non-evil creatures that the various races in the underground kingdom could (and would) follow, and then proceeded to forge peace-pacts and trade-routes through the under-mountain roads with the barony that had previously been planned as a target for conquest. Sure not one but two evil folk are still in power, but it's now against everyone's best interest to go against their neighbors - after all, they're getting a metric ton of money and other goods by just sitting back and letting things happen. Also, the orcs now play football "bjorker", allowing them to take out their aggression regularly, while others pay to watch them do so, and they get to ogle (and mate with) the various (jiggling) orc cheerleaders "rooters"; the dragonborn make money hand-over-fist on the betting pools; the drow... well, now there's only the one (the living adviser), who is neatly in charge of all of this; and the queen has been "promoted" to an "empress" who mostly enjoys sitting back and basking in the lap of luxury (basically what she was doing before... only now she doesn't have to work for it); and the "surface" barony has a ready-trained militant set of mercenaries as well as new access to both sides of its land which, before, was bisected by virtually impassible mountains. Everyone wins, and my lawful good follower of Bahamut only had to be a little super-duper-creepy evil to accomplish it! :D
It's very hard when playing in a game with a GM who has a definition of evil that is different to the CRB, the reverse is true for players. That said' this guy's cleric sounds awesome. I think we might miss the point in the arguing whether it was evil or not just how funny this conversation was; I showed my friends and they lol'd. I want to quit playing my evil cleric now and play one like this guy. It's just so full of win.
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Update:
It's been a while, but I recently watched the aforementioned guy for a while playing at the game shop table.
It was kinda weird to watch.
They took some prisoners in a fight. His LG cleric immediately started torturing them for info (the fight wasn't even completely over yet). Didn't even try to talk to them. No diplomacy or even intimidate until after he had already started. As far as I could tell the idea never even occurred to him.
Once he had his information, instantly put them down. No group discussion about trying to turn them in or can we chance releasing them? Nothing. Just they spilled the beans and whack.
The really bizarre part is that he seemed to be genuinely upset about what he was doing. But he literally seemed unable to even conceive of any other option.
The other people at the table seemed mildly irritated, but used to putting up with it.
I only had time to watch the aftermath of that one combat, but it was ... Wow, I don't even know what to call it.
I suppose he does need a barrel full of atonement scrolls.
Straaaaaaaaange.
How do the others go about getting information normally? How does he?
(I know you don't know - I'm just obliged to wonder.)
This must be what it's like to discover a bizarre new species in some remote corner of the world.
bribery isn't exactly lawfull eighter is it? and more often than not, it's not a Good act eighter.
on the second point, I beg to differ. greatly. I've made plenty of people do stupid things. Naivité is often a welcoming and easy to abuse quality.
LG? Sure its not. Not good? Yeah have to stop you right there. Bribing officals to do their job(paperwork wise or other works quite well for the greater good, especially NG. Bribing guards at the gate to get into or out of city gates prevent bloodshed, which is bound to happen.
People can do stupid things. But its their choice to do so. Not on you.
first of all: no.
bribing officials to do their job is an act of evil, for all it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. by bribing those officials, you are effectively telling them that being corrupt is the way to go. that's not good, and certainly not Good.
and people can do stupid things, and it's their choise, yes, but if the choise is made out of naivité, as in, not knowing the full picture, then they were robbed of all nececairy knowledge to make a smart decision. By not giving them that information beforehand, you're "forcing" them to make a stupid one. By making them think it's the right one.
again, you know the old saying, for evil to triumph, all is needed is for good men (and women) to do nothing (or not do something...)
and btw: I did say MORE OFTEN THAN NOT... as in, it's not always the case, it's no dogma, but it is pure logic.
id be interested in knowing the difference between logic and dogma, then.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Ooh! Story time!
Probably one of (not the, just one of*) the darkest "good-guy" moments I've had as a player was when my (predominantly good) ranger captured an orc scout.
After using him to gain (some little) information on the invading army, I spoke with him and explained that we needed to execute him honorably... we simply had no time for anything else.
He was too loyal to either let him free or travel with us as our bound prisoner - and we weren't going to cruelly leave him bound to starve or thirst to death.
I explained that I did this with no malice against him or his people (and, in fact, we had no quarrel with them beyond their own agression) and, while I was unhappy he didn't cooperate, I could respect and appreciate his reasons for doing so. I asked him if he was willing to die for his cause.
He simply narrowed his eyes, and lay his head on the stone for me to lop off. (Given that it's effectively a Coup de Grace with a Halberd, which maximized the damage roll, it worked.)
That was... exceedingly harsh, and something my character regretted having to do, but literally had no other choice - we were on a time-restrained mission and (he saw) no other way: none of us were enchanters, or super-diplomats (the highest diplomacy character was a tiefling; our bard was currently "kidnapped"), and we were unable to convince him of anything.
** spoiler omitted **...
gotta play with you one day.
Hah! Well, thank you. Returned. :)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Update:
It's been a while, but I recently watched the aforementioned guy for a while playing at the game shop table.
It was kinda weird to watch.
They took some prisoners in a fight. His LG cleric immediately started torturing them for info (the fight wasn't even completely over yet). Didn't even try to talk to them. No diplomacy or even intimidate until after he had already started. As far as I could tell the idea never even occurred to him.
Once he had his information, instantly put them down. No group discussion about trying to turn them in or can we chance releasing them? Nothing. Just they spilled the beans and whack.The really bizarre part is that he seemed to be genuinely upset about what he was doing. But he literally seemed unable to even conceive of any other option.
The other people at the table seemed mildly irritated, but used to putting up with it.
I only had time to watch the aftermath of that one combat, but it was ... Wow, I don't even know what to call it.
I suppose he does need a barrel full of atonement scrolls.
Sounds like this guy seriously needs an intervention....
Or a good brainwashing. Someone get the leather straps! We'll show him a good way to game! Oh, and don't forget the spray bottle, since he won't be blinking!