Flat Footed - clarification needed

[Craig1234]

I've been wrestling with the flat footed condition since I first read the rules and now think that I have it figured out - but want to check here to make sure I got it right (I understand how it affects attack and ac etc, just not how to determine when to apply the condition in the first place).

Let's say that the initiative order is as such:

14 Trixie
12 Bob
11 Ogre baddie (the only monster in the battle)
9 Fifi
2 Dead Ted

In this case, am I correct that in the first round of battle, Trixie and Bob would being attacking a flat footed ogre; and Fifi and Dead Ted would be attacking a normal (not flat footed) Ogre. Also, when the Ogre gets his turn, if he chose to attack either Trixie or Bob, it would be a normal attack, but if he went for Fifi or Dead Ted he would be attacking against their flat footedness? The with the second round, everyone is normal?

Thanks

[Ciaran Barnes]

Yes. A creature stops being flat-footed the first time it gets a turn.

[Craig1234]

ok, so the last game session was totally wrong in this respect, lol. At least now I know how to do it tomorrow.

Thanks

[Satchmo]

So if Bob is a wizard and casts a ranged touch spell at the ogre does the ogre get his dex and dodge bonuses to his flatfooted?

[Mark Garringer]

Flat-footed by definition excludes a positive dex modifier. Re-read page 58 of the Hero's Handbook (or the back cover of the Game Master's Guide. The ogre touch AC (8) takes the base value of 10 and applies the -1 size penalty and the -1 dex penalty. Since the spell calls for a ranged touch attack his flat-footed state is irrelevant as what you need is already factored into the touch AC.

[Drogon]

Side question to go with this thread:

Why are you not flat-footed after being knocked unconscious (to negative hit points) then revived (say, via channel positive energy) before your next turn?

I've always been curious about that, and figured this was as good a place as any to ask.

[Mark Garringer]

Strictly on word play I'd say because: Flat-Footed: A character who has not yet acted during a combat is flat-footed, unable to react normally to the situation. A flat-footed character loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity.

Presuming that in your example the character cleared the flat-footed condition already, neither the unconscious nor helpless conditions reapply flat-footed. Seems a smidgen overly punitive to me to reapply it here, but you could easily house rule it.

[Drogon]

I dunno if it's over-punitive. Flat-footed, to me, has always implied that you're not aware and ready for danger. Think how the combatants look in "The Gamers." I can't see someone coming out of consciousness being immediately ready to act and avoid danger.

Yes, it's easily house-ruled. I've just often wondered at why this wasn't put into the game, already. But this was more a passing question prompted by the thread than any real concern I have.

Thanks for giving my odd question time, though, Mark. (-;

PS - How come you've never gone back to using Zizazat? I always liked that name.

[Mark Garringer]

Drogon wrote:

PS - How come you've never gone back to using Zizazat? I always liked that name.

Ha! Thanks :) It's nice knowing I can go anywhere and use that as a user name and be sure to get it. I guess after my stint as Venture-Captain I finally got used to the idea of people recognizing me as...well me. Throw in a few writing credits here and there and I guess I finally 'grew out of it' after 20 something years.