Does a Flat-footed target who is Dazed remain Flat-Footed?

[shambles]

Does a Flat-footed target who is Dazed remain Flat-Footed?

[Mojorat]

this is really a rules question but being dazed wont change a creatures flat footed state.

[Ilja]

For reference:

d20pfsrd wrote:

Dazed

The creature is unable to act normally. A dazed creature can take no actions, but has no penalty to AC.

A dazed condition typically lasts 1 round.

d20pfsrd wrote:

Flat-Footed

A character who has not yet acted during a combat is flat-footed, unable to react normally to the situation. A flat-footed character loses his Dexterity bonus to AC and Combat Maneuver Defense (CMD) (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity, unless he has the Combat Reflexes feat or Uncanny Dodge class ability.

Characters with Uncanny Dodge retain their Dexterity bonus to their AC and can make attacks of opportunity before they have acted in the first round of combat.

My bolding.

Based on the wording, I would say yes, they remain flat-footed.

[shambles]

That's what I was kind of thinking.
Considering "Dazing Spell" with an AOE spell to make it easier on the melee in the team at the start of a fight (for several rounds).

[born_of_fire]

I thought there was a stipulation that once you were attacked you stopped being flat-footed but I can't find it anywhere. Maybe a 3.5 rule, maybe my imagination. Either way, I agree that a dazed opponent would remain flat-footed.

[Raith Shadar]

Nope. Flat-footed only applies to the first round and maybe a surprise round if they can't act. I know it doesn't make sense. It's how it works by RAW as far as I know.

Once they've rolled initiative and they can act during a round, they aren't flat-footed.

[wraithstrike]

Flat-footed and dazed are their own conditions with similar affects. Having one status does not give or maintain the other status.

[Raith Shadar]

All "acted" means in the Flat-footed text is they haven't reached your initiative yet. It's more a "could have acted". Once they hit your initiative you are no longer consider flat-footed even if you can't take any actions. You're considered to have acted and are capable of defending yourself as the Dazed condition allows.

[Kazaan]

Consider the following: If you reach your initiative order and choose not to take any actions, are you still considered flat-footed? No. Because "standing there like a lump" is, in itself, an action. A non-action action, maybe, but you've reached your initiative order and had the option to either take some or all of your allowed actions, or even do nothing at all. I don't see why it should be different for being Dazed before you've reached your first turn and being forced to bypass your actions.

[Orfamay Quest]

Raith Shadar wrote:

All "acted" means in the Flat-footed text is they haven't reached your initiative yet. It's more a "could have acted". Once they hit your initiative you are no longer consider flat-footed even if you can't take any actions. You're considered to have acted and are capable of defending yourself as the Dazed condition allows.

That's an awfully positive phrasing. Any evidence to discuss your certainty in this rather unusual use of the word "acted"?

[Gwen Smith]

I would have to say no, they are not flat-flooted, because of this text in Dazed: "A dazed creature can take no actions, but has no penalty to AC".

Since flat-footed characters can't add their Dex bonus to AC, I would say the lack of AC penalty in Dazed implies they are not flat-footed.

[Claxon]

Gwen Smith wrote:

I would have to say no, they are not flat-flooted, because of this text in Dazed: "A dazed creature can take no actions, but has no penalty to AC".

Since flat-footed characters can't add their Dex bonus to AC, I would say the lack of AC penalty in Dazed implies they are not flat-footed.

This

[Orfamay Quest]

Gwen Smith wrote:

I would have to say no, they are not flat-flooted, because of this text in Dazed: "A dazed creature can take no actions, but has no penalty to AC".

Since flat-footed characters can't add their Dex bonus to AC, I would say the lack of AC penalty in Dazed implies they are not flat-footed.

Doesn't follow. If I am a witch and I use the Evil Eye hex to give someone a -2 penalty to AC, does that mean that the penalty goes away if someone dazes that person? If a character is pinned and then dazed, does this mean the -4 penalty for pinned goes away? Does a dazed Colossal-sized creature no longer take a -8 penalty to its AC by virtue of size?

A dazed creature has no penalty to AC merely from being dazed but would retain any other penalty from any other source, such as from hostile magic, being pinned, size.... or flat-footed.

[gamer-printer]

shambles wrote:

Does a Flat-footed target who is Dazed remain Flat-Footed?

Correct, Daze doesn't remove the penalty to AC. If the target is flat-footed and becomes Dazed, they can take no action - including not being able to change flat-footed to not flat-footed state. Only if the target was not flat-footed before the Daze was applied are they still not flat-footed. Simple.

[LazarX]

Gwen Smith wrote:

I would have to say no, they are not flat-flooted, because of this text in Dazed: "A dazed creature can take no actions, but has no penalty to AC".

Since flat-footed characters can't add their Dex bonus to AC, I would say the lack of AC penalty in Dazed implies they are not flat-footed.

A character remains flat-footed until they have Acted in the combat. If they were put in a dazed condition in the surprise round, they remain flat -footed until they actually DO act.

This of course however requires that the spellcaster doing the dazing to not have moved in the surprise round, which can limit where this can be done due to range limitations of the spell.