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Like the title says. There are a lot of abilities and items lately that use a written version of a spell, which usually can be either a scroll of the spell or a copy of it scribed in a spellbook. I'm thinking in particular of the Arcane Archivist revelation that Oracles of Lore can get, and the Rings of Spell Knowledge and Mnemonic Vestments from Ultimate Equipment. Obviously, a player looking to have a large list of spells that they could make use with one or more of these of would much rather have a spellbook full of all the spells they want to use rather than a bunch of very expensive scrolls. However, most of the Core Rulebook is written under the assumption that only wizards use spellbooks, which tends to make it unclear as to whether other classes have the training and knowledge necessary to scribe spells in spellbooks with training in the Spellcraft skill. So my simplified question is:
Can a character who does not have any levels in a class that uses a spellbook to prepare spells (i.e. wizard, magus, or arcanist) still scribe spells into a spellbook if they can make the appropriate Spellcraft check?
Related to your inquiry; you could acquire a book by simply purchasing one. They are valued at the cost to inscribe the spells within them.
Thus a spellbook with a dozen 1st level spells would be valued at 12x10g or 120g.
It is a cheaper alternative to buying scrolls.
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Related to your inquiry; you could acquire a book by simply purchasing one. They are valued at the cost to inscribe the spells within them.
Thus a spellbook with a dozen 1st level spells would be valued at 12x10g or 120g.
It is a cheaper alternative to buying scrolls.
Well, now that's an interesting thought. I rather like the idea, but since I'm hoping to be doing this in PFS, I'm not sure it would fly. It does sound like something that would make an awful lot of sense though. I can certainly imagine a wizard running a business selling spellbooks with various sets of spells already inscribed.
What would be the purpose of a spell book to a sorcerer?
They already can cast all of their spells without preparation, and the only use of a spell book is to prepare your spells.
That is not the only purpose to a spellbook.
Well, now that's an interesting thought. I rather like the idea, but since I'm hoping to be doing this in PFS, I'm not sure it would fly. It does sound like something that would make an awful lot of sense though. I can certainly imagine a wizard running a business selling spellbooks with various sets of spells already inscribed.Related to your inquiry; you could acquire a book by simply purchasing one. They are valued at the cost to inscribe the spells within them.
Thus a spellbook with a dozen 1st level spells would be valued at 12x10g or 120g.
It is a cheaper alternative to buying scrolls.
I did just that in a campaign in which I played a wizard.
I got a bunch of traveler's spellbooks and inscribed spells in them. I spaced them by school and level range. So each book only had a handful of spells.
They could be bought outright, rented for 1/2 price, or if someone wished, they could add a spell that wasn't listed and rental fee was waived.
All in all, the venture paid for itself and increased his number of spells known, essentially for free. If the campaign had lasted longer, it would have been interesting to see how far it could have gone. But it was fun and helpful, for sure.
All the while promoting the idea that wizards cooperatively share their knowledge with one another.
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What would be the purpose of a spell book to a sorcerer?
They already can cast all of their spells without preparation, and the only use of a spell book is to prepare your spells.
To expand on what I said in the OP, Rings of Spell Knowledge and Mnemonic Vestments are both items designed for spontaneous spellcasters that use written forms of spells to expand the spellcaster's options. Scrolls can be used, but spellbooks are usually cheaper and easier to carry, plus they often make for more interesting flavor. So admittedly this is something of a corner case, but since it's something I've been running into with several of my characters lately, I thought I'd see if I could get an answer.
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I'd have to assume the answer is no, since the ability to author a spellbook is essentially a class feature, especially since the class that's being talked about is not an arcane class at it's root.
Your best option would be to pay a wizard to make a spellbook, or just take one from a wizard you take down.
Well, since I was thinking of bards and sorcerers using the Rings of Spell Knowledge in particular, there are definitely arcane classes who will want to do this. And I can see the argument for the ability to scribe a spellbook being a class feature, but I think the spellbook class feature is more about preparing spells from a spellbook than anything else.
There's not much evidence one way or the other, but I feel compelled to point to the fact that Arcane Magical Writing is a separate section under the Magic section of the CRB, and is not inherently part of the wizard class. Although that section references wizards doing everything, all it requires for most of the tasks (such as scribing) is a spellcraft check.
It's just that at the time the CRB was written, wizards were the only class who could do anything with spellbooks. But now there are two other classes which prepare their spells from spellbooks, a couple magic items which enable spontaneous casters to use them to expand their spell options, and a revelation for oracles which actually requires that the user have a spellbook(Arcane Archivist, Lore Mystery).
As far as needing the Scribe Scroll feat to scribe a spellbook.... That would make sense, except neither the Magus nor the Arcanist start with that (Arcanists get it at 3rd level, but they've been preparing and casting spells for two levels by then). So that doesn't make a lot of sense, especially in PFS where nobody has Scribe Scroll.
What other purpose is there?That is not the only purpose to a spellbook.What would be the purpose of a spell book to a sorcerer?
They already can cast all of their spells without preparation, and the only use of a spell book is to prepare your spells.
Please read the OP again. Other reasons are clearly given.
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The 'Versatile Spontaneity' feat from the recent PFS Primer would be another excellent use of this, for a sorcerer.
Prerequisites: Int 13 or Wis 13 (see Special), ability to spontaneously cast 2nd-level spells.
Benefit: When you regain spell slots at the start of the day, you may opt to prepare one spell you don’t know in place of a daily spell slot 1 level higher than the prepared spell’s level. To do so, you must have access to the selected spell on a scroll or in a spellbook, and the spell must be on your spell list (even if it is not one of your spells known). This process takes 10 minutes per spell level of the selected spell. You can cast the selected spell a single time, expending the spell slot as though it were a known spell being cast by you. Preparing a spell in this manner expends a scroll but not a spellbook. A spell prepared in this way is considered its actual level rather than the level of the spell slot expended. You can apply metamagic feats to the spell as normal, as long as the spell’s actual level plus the increases from metamagic feats is 1 level lower than the highest-level spell you can cast. For example, a 12th-level sorcerer with this feat, a scroll of fireball, and the Empower Spell metamagic feat could prepare an empowered fireball spell in
her 6th-level spell slot.
Special: If you spontaneously cast arcane spells, you must have an Intelligence score of at least 13 to take this feat. If you spontaneously cast divine spells, you must have a Wisdom score of at least 13 to take this feat. If you have both arcane and divine
spellcasting classes, you can use this feat to prepare
a spell using a given class’s spell slot as long as you
meet the associated ability score prerequisite.
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The short answer is no. The long answer is that none of these things give even the slightest hint that a sorcerer can transcribe spells into a spellbook, just that if the spellbook is in possession, the spells can be cast; so, no.
Pick one up from a dead guy or buy one; those are your only legitimate options.
That is NOT the purpose of a spellbook, it's why the OP wants one... two entirely separate things.
Um... what?
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The explanation was the part of the post that you didn't quote.That is NOT the purpose of a spellbook, it's why the OP wants one... two entirely separate things.Um... what?
The F...
No it wasn't.
What other purpose is there?...the only use of a spell book is to prepare your spells.That is not the only purpose to a spellbook.
This is how this little sidetrack started. Right here.
Brf stated the only use for a spellbook was to prepare spells. A false statement.
I informed him that there are other purposes for a spellbook.
LazarX asked what those other purposes are...
Please read the OP again. Other reasons are clearly given.
Because the OP clearly mentions other purposes for having a spellbook.
Then we reach this point we're at now. LazarX saying something self-contradictory, and you chiming in about the irrelevent stuff he said about sorcerers. Yay.
TLDR: A Spellbook has more than one purpose. Yes, they do allow casters to prepare spells from them, notable amongst these being the Wizard, Magus, and Arcanist. That is not the only purpose they can serve. Certain feats, class abilities, or even magic items can interact with magical writings found within a spellbook to great advantage.
Some of these are even listed in the OP. At least one more has come up in the course of this very thread. So, again... the ???? are you guys talking about?
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I was rather under the impression that the purpose of a spellbook was to record spells in such a way that they can be studied and cast. Spontaneous spellcasters may need an item or feat in order to cast from one, but they most certainly can do so. The original purpose of a spellbook was to allow wizards to record their spells in order to study and cast them later, but like so much else in this wonderful living game, that purpose has expanded with the addition of new options.
I am simply asking that, with all these new options, we take a fresh look at spellbooks and see whether it makes sense for other classes—properly equipped with a knowledge of spellcraft, a book, and a pen—to be able to copy down spells.
To sort of restate what Remy is saying: LazarX is arguing that there is a purpose for a spellbook - singular, no other uses.
There are obviously other uses, therefore a spellbook has multiple potential purposes. Now, one can argue that what LazarX is quoting is the primary purpose of a spellbook, but that in no way invalidates the other purposes\reasons for spellbooks to exist. You could play in a custom setting where there are only spontaneous spellcasting classes, and spellbooks would still serve the purposes mentioned in the first post.
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To sort of restate what Remy is saying: LazarX is arguing that there is a purpose for a spellbook - singular, no other uses.
There are obviously other uses, therefore a spellbook has multiple potential purposes. Now, one can argue that what LazarX is quoting is the primary purpose of a spellbook, but that in no way invalidates the other purposes\reasons for spellbooks to exist. You could play in a custom setting where there are only spontaneous spellcasting classes, and spellbooks would still serve the purposes mentioned in the first post.
Spellbooks aren't created so that some wag can burn pages from them to cast spells. Their created by preparatory casters for one specific purpose. The fact that others can hijack them for other uses, does not mean they're created for those reasons.
I could use an automobile to hammer nails by affixing a flat block in the right place and driving it just so. That does not mean that cars were created to be hammers.
In a world without prepatory spellcasting classes, spellbooks would not exist, as no one would have the skills to write one.
I had a wizard who created spellbooks with the specific purpose of selling them and renting them. That is why he made them.
He didn't prepare spells from them, not even once.
That isn't why he made them, it was not their purpose. Their purpose was purely merchandise.
Now, to what purpose people employed these books? Mostly for the purpose of learning new spells, I'm sure. Again, another purpose of the spellbook other than preparation of spells.