Weapon Focus requires proficiency. By definition, an improvised weapon is a weapon in which you do not have proficiency in or a weapon being used in an unintentional way.
I don't see it as that big of a deal. The surprise weapon trait gives you a +2 attack roll bonus on improvised weapons. There's another that removes non-proficiency penalties and bestows a +1 bonus. Both basically give you the effect of two free feats at first level. You get to take pride in that your attacks with a chair are more accurate than a swordsman's attacks. And that's the point of improvised weapon builds. You're not doing it for the mechanics -- you're doing it for the flavor. As long as you're not in PFS, the builds are feasible.
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I think part of the point is that weapon focus represents a lot of similar feats, and their dependencies. Why can't a monk of the empty hand use dazzling display? Because he's not proficient with his blood caked and stained chair leg, that happens to have nails sticking out of it with body pieces (skin, hair, etc...) still attached? That'd be intimidating to me, more so than a clean katana, dagger, spear, etc...
Its also kinda weird that the class focused around using Improvised Weapons can't take the feats that show you have started to focus on Improvised Weapons.
He can't take Weapon Focus, but he can take Improvised Weapon Mastery, which is a much better feat.
I think part of the point is that weapon focus represents a lot of similar feats, and their dependencies. Why can't a monk of the empty hand use dazzling display? Because he's not proficient with his blood caked and stained chair leg, that happens to have nails sticking out of it with body pieces (skin, hair, etc...) still attached? That'd be intimidating to me, more so than a clean katana, dagger, spear, etc...
A MotEH can take Weapon Focus (Unarmed)and Dazzling Display. He can use it even if he's wielding a blood caked and stained chair leg since he's always wielding his unarmed attacks.
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He can't take Weapon Focus, but he can take Improvised Weapon Mastery, which is a much better feat.
Yes, but mechanically Improvised Weapon Mastery represents you becoming better in-combat with a broad spectrum of improvised weapons, while Weapon Focus represents you training with that weapon specifically since you use it often. If a Monk of the Empty Hand used a particular improvised weapon on his person specifically to fight with if he has to, would it not make sense that he is better with that weapon than with others?
If a Monk of the Empty Hand used a particular improvised weapon on his person specifically to fight with if he has to, would it not make sense that he is better with that weapon than with others?
But isn't the POINT of a Monk of the Empty Hand to have, well, Empty Hands ? That's drifting away from a rules question into an "intent of the archetype" question, though.
If a Monk of the Empty Hand used a particular improvised weapon on his person specifically to fight with if he has to, would it not make sense that he is better with that weapon than with others?But isn't the POINT of a Monk of the Empty Hand to have, well, Empty Hands ? But that's drifting away from a rules question into an "intent of the archetype" question.
This exactly. The whole point of the MotEH is a Monk who fights with his bare hands and whatever weapon or weapon-like object is handy. It would make perfect sense for the mechanics of the archetype to reinforce that concept.
If you want to play a character with a favorite weapon (or favorite chair leg) then play any other class than the one that specifically doesn't use weapons.
Sorry to Revive this old thread.
But I have been reading through it all, and by RAW, the rules seems pretty clear now.
But using logical explanations to try and prove what is buggin my mind...
As stated by SlimGauge, THIS post clearly state the use of enchanted weapons, losing their properties when used in "Unintended" ways, such as improvised combat.
But this sounds... Weird?
I mean, pick up a +1 flaming arrow.
Stab X random enemy with the arrow.
Arrow becomes an improvised melee weapon.
Even if the arrow head penetrate the targets skin, that burning arrow head, it does not burn X target?
I can understand, that if the arrow was thrown, the backside could hit and possibly be kinda "Pointless" with the enchant on the head. Or a weapon hilt hitting instead of said enchanted blade etc.
Yet, Mindblown by this fact - Does it really mean, that if you where to use the weapon in unintended way, all its function as a weapon is lost? If a weapon with returning, is thrown by a MotEH, it loses its ability to return? A Guided weapon, with a -MAGICAL ENCHANT- to use Wis instead of strength, no longer function, becourse the user, do not use it "As intended"?...
This confuses me.
I follow the rules, made by RAW or my Current GM, but I never back down from questioning, what seems to make no sense... Or that I just do not Understand yet.
Any feedback on this welcome, unless the feedback cannot help me understand the actually issue(s) mentioned above...