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GM here, had a situation where someone managed to disarm a "big bad" of his hilariously powerful weapon, used a power that up'd their Strength for a single strength check, and tried to Break the weapon.
Problem is, I can find NOTHING that was even a vague guideline for what the hell the DC should be. I got lucky given the timing, and stopped the session mid-attempt, but I'm going to need something to come back with.
A +5 Adamantine Greatsword, by my math, should have the following stats:
30 hardness (20 for adamantine, +2 for each point of enhancement)
63 hp (10 base for a two-handed weapon, plus an extra third for adamantine. Then +10 for each point of enhancement)
But I can find NO Break/Burst DCs for any weapons, let alone adamantine ones, let alone enchanted ones. I'd ballpark a basic sword at DC 26, equal to "Burst chain bonds". But I have no idea how to adjust that DC up for its other properties.
Is there anything, spells or rules, that I could use for precedence?
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Hmm, let's see.
So, I'm starting with an Iron Door as the base for this, which has a break DC of 28. This is based on 10 hardness and 60 hit points. The hit points are almost identical to the magical sword, so that helps.
According to the table found here, add +3 to the DC for every 5 hardness the object has (approximately) so I'm thinking we're looking at 28 + (3 x 6) = 28 + 18 = 46, which is almost as high as a 3-foot thick stone wall (break DC 50) so that's where I'd put it.
Checking out the Object Hardness and Hit Points table, the Break DC for objects ranges from 13 to 23 for hardness 5, and 26 to 28 for hardness 10. If you want a quick and dirty estimate, you could set the DC to hardness + 15. That makes the sword DC 45.
Strength Surge is great but it's not gonna help you make a Break DC like that very well. He would've been better off just tossing the sword aside or trying to Sunder it, because that 45 sounds about right.
Wouldn't be surprised if you couldn't break a weapon, only sunder it.
I'd start with the following quotation: "Since hardness doesn't affect an object's Break DC, this value depends more on the construction of the item than on the material the item is made of. "
Breaking a thin metal blade should not be that difficult, and hardness explicitly does not affect the difficulty. I'd go with a break DC of 15 or so, and then give it +1 for every piece of enhancement bonus for a DC 20.
Don't think it's actually going to be that high:
Breaking Items
When a character tries to break or burst something with sudden force rather than by dealing damage, use a Strength check (rather than an attack roll and damage roll, as with the sunder special attack) to determine whether he succeeds. Since hardness doesn't affect an object's break DC, this value depends more on the construction of the item than on the material the item is made of. Consult Table: DCs to Break or Burst Items for a list of common break DCs.
Bending an iron bar is DC 24, so just bending the sword should be in that region. Actually breaking it, though, somewhere around "Burst Chain Bonds" at DC 26 is more reasonable. Since it's adamantine, though, I'd probably up it by 5-10, but definitely not more than that.
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Don't break it. Sell it.
Bending an iron bar is DC 24, so just bending the sword should be in that region.. Actually breaking it, though, somewhere around "Burst Chain Bonds" at DC 26 is more reasonable.Breaking Items
When a character tries to break or burst something with sudden force rather than by dealing damage, use a Strength check (rather than an attack roll and damage roll, as with the sunder special attack) to determine whether he succeeds. Since hardness doesn't affect an object's break DC, this value depends more on the construction of the item than on the material the item is made of. Consult Table: DCs to Break or Burst Items for a list of common break DCs.
A thin blade is much easier to break or bend than a thicker bar, and swords are not designed to handle transverse stresses. Chain bonds are supposed to handle stresses of that sort, not blades.
Since it's adamantine, though, I'd probably up it by 5-10, but definitely not more than that.
You highlighted the bit above that suggests to me that adamantine is irrelevant.
You should have to sunder it, not break it.
Hardness of 30 (20 + 2*5) and ~63 hp, as you noted.
In other words...it's going to be insanely hard to destroy it at all, even using sunder and over many attacks.
It should NOT have a break DC. I don't think any weapon should unless it's a specific exception (some staves).
You dont break weapons you sunder them. You break things that hold other things in place or confine them. You /sunder/ a sword.
Every item listed in the Break or burst table falls in this catagory and the two condition modifiers only work on these objects. the reason the DC's for these are much lower is because a) in most cases the only modifer is your strength stat and b) In alot of cases the item is likely mostly in tact afterwards.
Ie when you Bust down an iron door it may bend a little but chances are it 'broke' because the Iron hinges or whatever went or pulled out of the wall.
Although that thought admitedly doesnt work for Manacles.
Anyhow, to reiterate you sunder weapons you break doors.
What's the point of an Adamantine weapon if it can be broken, or sundered? By anything ever?
Me personally, I'd rule that it can't be broken, but it clatters across the room. Now you've got the tension of the big bad trying to muscle past the guys, or trying to maneuver back to his weapon somehow. This is where the big bad having tons of mooks would be a great source of stress, panic and tension. Every game should be stressful and tense and make the player panic.
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I'd actually go with the lower break DC, ignoring the Adamantine altogether and here is why:
To "Break" a sword you just need to render it useless, just breaking the components holding the blade to the hilt is all it takes, this is even the case with a normal iron sword, it would be easier to destroy the hilt then the blade itself.
Now, it is magical, so I WOULD give the DC a boost from that.
I'd start with a DC of 23 as the standard leather bindings should be similar to rope and any metal parts you need to break would be thinner and likely made of Iron or Steel with the Adamantine only being for the blade. I would then add +2 for each + of the weapon for a total of +10 for a 33 break DC.
Why would your players want to destroy such a valuable weapon though?
What's the point of an Adamantine weapon if it can be broken, or sundered? By anything ever?To beat DR Adamantine and to cut through object with a lower hardness. I didn't know people bought Adamantine weapons just to make them harder to break.
Oh yeah. That's the only reason I'd get an Adamantine weapon.
GM here, had a situation where someone managed to disarm a "big bad" of his hilariously powerful weapon, used a power that up'd their Strength for a single strength check, and tried to Break the weapon.
Is there anything, spells or rules, that I could use for precedence?
If he's going for a strength check to break it, he's not using a weapon, I assume. So this isn't a sunder attempt.
The closest I can come up with is a Blade of Binding. It's got a break DC of 28. It's a +1 greatsword. It's designed to grapple you, and you get a Break DC check to break free. The important bit is that if you break free, it gains the broken condition. Seems close enough to me.
If you threw more mojo on it and made it a +5 greatsword of binding would the break DC be any higher?
If so, why, and by how much?
If not, then the DC to break the sword is 28. If the player succeeds, the sword gains the broken condition.
If it had been a sunder attempt then the player could actually destroy it by doing damage to the objects hit points, but s/he didn't.
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Using the table at the bottom of the page from http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/additionalRules.html#_breaking-items
and "Weapons and armor normally made of steel that are made of adamantine have one-third more hit points than normal. Adamantine has 40 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 20." from http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/equipment.html
we get that the greatsword would be a 2 handed sword (Hardness 10, HP 10) with adadamantine becomes (Hardness 17, HP 13) none of these state that the break DC becomes any more difficult. a "bend and iron bar" equivalent of 24 should be unchanged. this is backed up by "Breaking Items... Since hardness doesn't affect an object's break DC, this value depends more on the construction of the item than on the material the item is made of. Consult Table: DCs to Break or Burst Items for a list of common break DCs."
at most i'd add a +2 to the DC because of "If an item has lost half or more of its hit points, the item gains the broken condition (see Conditions) and the DC to break it drops by 2." seeing as we are adding close to half as much HP due to the material.
Will giving the sword the 'broken' condition really do what the PCs want? -2 to hit and damage and made into a 20/x2 critical is not much different from just reducing the enhancement bonus by 2...'Oh no, he's now beating us up with his +3 adamantine greatsword!'
