Goblin Squad Member
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Prediction isn't determination.
Culture and philosophy and politics all interoperate and modify one another simultaneously, unlike the chicken/egg thing.
If it isn't too personal, such as a religious conviction or similar, I'd like to know what it is about Hegel's formulation of what he called die Weltgeist you found fundamentally flawed, should you feel like sharing your view.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I already did xD the "Weltgeist" states that there is a supernatural force that is equal in all people that drives them forward yes?
Further it goes in a cyclical pattern of tension (from the "Weltgeist") rising, issues arising, revolution, change ensuing, tension rising. He then further goes on to say this keeps on continuing until an "ending" that is, the point at which there is no more change can be applied (at least I believe that was Hegel...)
My problem is twofold, first that people do not have a single unified urge to change. Some people want change to better society (whether this is "good" or "bad" is irrelevant), people who want society to remain as is, and people who want to destroy society (and I'm sure others). If his "Weltgeist" was true then there would only be two factors: change and similarity. I feel that these people all have different motives, or "energies" guiding them, not one unified force pitting them against each other. Second is the "ending" Hegel mentions. People have, and will always have, different perspectives. So long as there is sin and laws and social norms and etc. there will be this tension. And those things will persist until the universe ends (if it does, which of course we might never fully know). If the universe ends/humans become extinct I guess that would count as an "ending" but not really in my opinion, as Hegel is mentioning a fulfillment of the cycle, not a simple "stopping" and that is an important difference
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thank you. I think Hegel was inadequately understood.
His books and much that we know of him are almost all the product of the lecture notes his students took.
No question, he strikes me as a bigot, at least as represented by his students, but then again I can easily imagine some of the distortions we may be laboring under given those sources.
I agree that people don't appear to have a single unified spiritual force or 'urge'... usually. <casts a weary gaze on recent politics>
On the other hand I can easily see Hegel trying to describe how people in conversation can, for all intents and purposes, unite 'in spirit', as if 'the cause' were greater than they, outside of themselves and shared. And be interpreted as if a religious lunatic.
Think of the stadium filled with sport fans doing the 'wave'. Is this what was really meant by 'weltgeist'?
I can easily imagine how some students, especially if they didn't particularly like Herr Professor, might have skewed their notations. He gave me a 'D'. And you ask was he brilliant? Heh...
I know that for Hegel the end of most cycles is the beginning of the next. In dialectic reasoning for example the dynamic tension between thesis and antithesis results in synthesis and the beginning of the next cycle, where what was the synthetic is the new thesis awaiting an antithesis.
In the 'great conversation' it may be that pragmatism was the synthesis of his idealism with Marx' communism but the sequence seems out of order and even if it were I don't think synthesis was complete before Hitler diverted or aborted what might otherwise have become world history. Would it have been 'better'? We cannot and will never know.
I just think that pragmatism holding intellectual monopoly is fully as hazardous in our culture as monopolies are in the economy.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I will try and explain what I mean thenA settlement is designed for 500 to 1000 people (cf Ryan Dancey)
The biggest announced organisations currently are probably Pax and TEO
Both of these organistations count according to my reckoning around 100 to 150 members (though some may never appear in game) ...
PAX, TEO, and T7V seem to have many members not on the forum (like your community). The devs have indicated that most companies will be less than 50. A settlement will have multiple companies.
If spread evenly, settlements may well average 300 at founding, however I suspect that there will be a few large settlements and then others with small groups, some possibly empty. In OE when groups move in en mass, the small communities will fall or be taken over from within. You have made convincing point of that. Plus, I remember my group moving from one server to another; and then moving from one game to another earlier this century. Server moves usually 95% moved. When we moved games, maybe only 50% moved, the more aggressive ones. With time that whittled down, esp. when the leader withdrew for RL issues (new child changing jobs and moving cities (same state)).
PAX/TEO/T7V will probably be multiple companies in the settlements but will have 'allies' to finish the settlement. There maybe better organization structure than current subject based, e.g. time zone based.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Nihimon
yeah but he also said to be wary of the people you recruit. it is a balancing game.
@Being
It is very likely that you are correct. However, as one of my philosophy teachers put it, "We have what we have, and with philosophy more than anything it would be faulty to assume something about how someone thought with what we don't have." I will agree that he is very poorly represented. Lecture notes, either student or teacher, are never the full picture. A pity.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I don't think that's peoples' intention. My example explicitly mentioned that non-griefer newcomers might end up allying with the Paizonians to counter griefing efforts.There are plenty of non griefer new comers who will consider Nihimons view of acceptable behavior to be irrelevant and unworkable. I am one of them.
As to people joining existing groups. I am sure that many will be willing to and I fully encourage those that want to fail to recruit as many as you can. Indiscriminate recruiting kills more fledgling corporations and alliances in Eve than virtually anything else. I do not expect many to take that advice to heart but it happens to be true
What is the mechanism by which having stricter recruitment requirements prevents whatever thing it is that kills those corporations? I figure that expanding too quickly in scope kills some, as they exceed their leaders' ability to manage people, and failure to thrive kills some, as they don't recruit enough new active players to expand as much as their ability and ambition does. Neither of those failures is directly mitigated by having more stringent recruitment requirements.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Do you think TSV currently has a very open policy?
Yes. Absolutely. In addition, we have specifically chosen policies to make The Seventh Veil an attractive Company to a very wide audience. I am very hopeful that a large number of players who read these forums will seek out The Seventh Veil when they finally get in the game, and I intend to reach out to new players in game who didn't even know these forums existed.
I've seen a "mega-guild" up close and personal when I was an active member of Gaiscioch (notice the "Search 6,353 Members") and I'd like to think I learned a thing or two. Foghladha (Ben Foley, the leader) was extremely accessible, and extremely personable, and had a very straight-forward style. He didn't make demands of people, instead he built an organization that gave members clear opportunities to contribute and advance. From what I can tell, the only real requirement is something remarkably similar to "don't be a jerk". It was easy to feel like you were part of a very, very large extended family.
I think the greatest danger PFO faces is players who just don't know what to do - there won't be a clear series of quests for them to follow. My hope is that The Seventh Veil can distinguish itself by creating in-game and meta-game resources that give our Members and Allies clear opportunities to meaningfully contribute across a wide range of play styles. I think we have some clear advantages in that regard with some very organized and motivated folks. I think our Members and Allies will be proud to be associated with The Seventh Veil.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Do you think TSV currently has a very open policy?Yes. Absolutely. In addition, we have specifically chosen policies to make The Seventh Veil an attractive Company to a very wide audience. I am very hopeful that a large number of players who read these forums will seek out The Seventh Veil when they finally get in the game, and I intend to reach out to new players in game who didn't even know these forums existed.
I've seen a "mega-guild" up close and personal when I was an active member of Gaiscioch (notice the "Search 6,353 Members") and I'd like to think I learned a thing or two. Foghladha (Ben Foley, the leader) was extremely accessible, and extremely personable, and had a very straight-forward style. He didn't make demands of people, instead he built an organization that gave members clear opportunities to contribute and advance. From what I can tell, the only real requirement is something remarkably similar to "don't be a jerk". It was easy to feel like you were part of a very, very large extended family.
I think the greatest danger PFO faces is players who just don't know what to do - there won't be a clear series of quests for them to follow. My hope is that The Seventh Veil can distinguish itself by creating in-game and meta-game resources that give our Members and Allies clear opportunities to meaningfully contribute across a wide range of play styles. I think we have some clear advantages in that regard with some very organized and motivated folks. I think our Members and Allies will be proud to be associated with The Seventh Veil.
Ah sure...I think we were talking about 2 different things. I think Steelwing and I were referring to a "Click here to join" recruiting policy (please correct me if I am wrong).
TSV has an ~ 2 week interview/discussion period...then a 1 month trial after being "accepted", and we have discussed requiring video chat for any officers...and I know Decius's favorite pastime is trying to track down IP addresses for our web traffic (I think the use of Tors just makes it interesting...as long as it in unencrypted). while we are very open minded in our recruiting...and probably not as secure as Steelwing would recommend, I would not call our policy "Very Open"...and especially not "Blind".
But sorry everyone for waylaying the conversation...where were we?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Do you think TSV currently has a very open policy?Yes. Absolutely. In addition, we have specifically chosen policies to make The Seventh Veil an attractive Company to a very wide audience. I am very hopeful that a large number of players who read these forums will seek out The Seventh Veil when they finally get in the game, and I intend to reach out to new players in game who didn't even know these forums existed.
I've seen a "mega-guild" up close and personal when I was an active member of Gaiscioch (notice the "Search 6,353 Members") and I'd like to think I learned a thing or two. Foghladha (Ben Foley, the leader) was extremely accessible, and extremely personable, and had a very straight-forward style. He didn't make demands of people, instead he built an organization that gave members clear opportunities to contribute and advance. From what I can tell, the only real requirement is something remarkably similar to "don't be a jerk". It was easy to feel like you were part of a very, very large extended family.
I think the greatest danger PFO faces is players who just don't know what to do - there won't be a clear series of quests for them to follow. My hope is that The Seventh Veil can distinguish itself by creating in-game and meta-game resources that give our Members and Allies clear opportunities to meaningfully contribute across a wide range of play styles. I think we have some clear advantages in that regard with some very organized and motivated folks. I think our Members and Allies will be proud to be associated with The Seventh Veil.
Gaiscioch is a pretty fantastic organization of folk. Pax has worked with them in games we don't support as heavily as others. We have multiple Pax members in Gaiscioch :)
*As in Gaiscioch forum members*
*Edited for clarity*
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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h sure...I think we were talking about 2 different things. I think Steelwing and I were referring to a "Click here to join" recruiting policy (please correct me if I am wrong).
TSV has an ~ 2 week interview/discussion period...then a 1 month trial after being "accepted", and we have discussed requiring video chat for any officers...and I know Decius's favorite pastime is trying to track down IP addresses for our web traffic (I think the use of Tors just makes it interesting...as long as it in unencrypted). while we are very open minded in our recruiting...and probably not as secure as Steelwing would recommend, I would not call our policy "Very Open"...and especially not "Blind".
But sorry everyone for waylaying the conversation...where were we?
Putting some of that in context: I've had to identify and track down spammers. I know how one could theoretically backtrace through a TOR proxy, but lack the access to the network infrastructure to do so. If I ever felt like blacklisting known TOR exit nodes, it would be pretty trivial to do so.
Our primary security policy is through means other than technological, and we implement it effectively enough for my preference.
I would like to second Being's complaint: TSV has not added me to its ranks, either.
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...
Quit changing the subject.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@LazarX
indeed. but in regards to the council I honestly don't care about people who don't sign into it. The council is a SELF-GOVERNING body. It doesn't rule people who don't sign into it, nor should the council expect to govern people outside it.
This is not a council to enact global laws with global inpact, but to enact global laws with specific inpact. My goal here isn't to control every single person in the Two Rivers (which seems to be what most people think this is about) but rather to monitor the leading powers (or whoever does sign on) and to give a place to publicly display treaties/alliances/war decs for people who would like to know.
tl;dr: This isn't a global police force, and it is mostly to display treaties and discourage them from being broken than to actually enforce anything. If you aren't "in" then you shouldn't be concerned.
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Goblin Squad Member
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ICC:
Monitor This!!!
/points to crotch
/mocking laugh
OCC:
Those groups that abstain from signing or participating ion such an agreement are not necessarily opposed to its ideals, purpose or practices. They just might want to keep their treaties and events under wraps or on a need to know basis.
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The council idea sounds like something to be implemented as the next step over kingdoms or as an additional political element to current groups.
Multiple councils with varying political attitudes formed from alliances of different kingdoms, settlements and guilds could each set their own principles and rulings. This would create variety and even more power for you, BrotherZael, should a worldwide decision need to be made based on the arguments of multiple councils.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Kios
I have erred severely somewhere. I do not want global domination power. This is not a global governing agency. This is a policing agency ONLY for those who sign on.
That said, yours is a very interesting proposal. I like the idea of the councils (of course) but I don't like the idea of their absolute power, nor the idea of myself having absolute power.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It seems many view the idea as some sort of super-police force when really it about the following... (at least from my interpretation)
Creating a neutral space where parties can enter into public agreement with some manner of oversight and enforcement for that agreement beyond what they themselves may be able to perform as reprisal against a party that does not uphold their end of the deal. The nature and terms of the enforcement can be defined by the parties making the agreement. The council would exist to determine whether or not an agreement made has been broken in bad faith, and who the infringing party is. This provides an excellent avenue for small organizations to make deals with other organizations of similar or larger size, as it adds extra weight to agreements as a way to prevent themselves from being abused or taken advantage of by an unfaithful larger party. The group would not seek to enforce ALL treaties, only those that were willingly brought into being through this system by all parties. Naturally, if it works well, it would become suspicious when a group wishes to avoid making treaties in this forum and would then become an additional layer of protection for small companies - an entirely player created layer of protection at that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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completely unrelated as well but whatever, we've gotten so off-topic anyway
That graphic looks like scanning down anomalies in EVE Online.
@ Being, Titanfall can't be more shallow than MechWarrior Online, it at least has a story mode (I believe?).
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Goblin Squad Member
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Multiplayer campaign sort of thing I believe... I really should know more about these things. -.-'
Yes, I believe based on The Goodfellow's description, each map has a series of connected objectives or phases that eventually complete the campaign.
New Maps are not just added as a new place to fight in/on, but also a new string of linked objectives of a campaign.