I'm sure that's true, but the current topic is Ukraine, and in this case the US is not trying to invade it, Russia is.That's highly debatable.
Also,this is(was?) headquarters of Ukrainian ministry of internal affairs.
Who invades what,again?
Mercs can be hired by anyone, and hold no allegiences to a certain flag. Hence the name.
Also thanks for that website. The comments were a riot! A fav:
the USA is working for the NWO ( Anti-Christ )...
Putin is working against the NWO and USA, and therefor helping everybody, even the low IQ yanks.
very soon Russia will have to go across the border again, to restore law and order in the Ukraine, but the USA will use this as an excuse to try and do harm to Russia ( both political and financial ), but Putin will turn this problem back onto the USA, he will made Obozo look like a complete d**khead, and sell up all of the USA currency that Russia holds, this will create the BIGGEST FINANCIAL CRASH EVER SEEN IN THE USA...
so where is it all leading too, well the evil USA wants a war, but the yanks have underestimated the resourcefulness of the Russian people, and they are about to get the shock of their lives...
stay tuned to your TV sets, world war three will be screening very shortly !!!
heil Putin
I was under the impression that the anti-missile systems were already in use by the US since the Gulf war and had been tested multiple times under fire (first in the Persian Gulf War when they shot incoming scuds, then later with more advanced missiles in other conflicts.
Hence, a proven system already.
My strength isn't military systems so...don't know tons about this stuff, but thought that this was already tested and done?
Most if not all of the tests were done from US guided missile cruisers, (Ticonderoga and Arleigh Burke class, iirc). I honestly don't know if any land installations have been built anywhere yet. I wouldn't be suprised if Israel has one or two, though. The one in Poland is set to go up in 2018.
IMO, if you have multiple fleets with guided missile cruisers/destroyers, that's better than any land locked system, for coverage.Oh wait! We do!
I was under the impression that the anti-missile systems were already in use by the US since the Gulf war and had been tested multiple times under fire (first in the Persian Gulf War when they shot incoming scuds, then later with more advanced missiles in other conflicts.
Problem is,SCUDs were outdated even during gulf war.They are easy.Standard ballistic trajectory,no maneuver engines,no decoys,no ECM.
Also relatively slow.They can't even be retargeted in-flight,how outdated is that?And Aegis system was never tested against more advanced missiles,because US was never at war with operators of said missiles.
Georgia,OTOH,was.It was not pretty.
Rule of thumb, anything on infowars is almost certainly 180 degrees from reality.
It was the first english site on google)I must quote something,right?
I can't just quote my sources who think they saw a few buses with english-speaking people inside.if you have multiple fleets with guided missile cruisers/destroyers, that's better than any land locked system, for coverage.
Excuse me,sir,i have a question.
Who uses ballistic missiles against fleet?Well,exept rumors of chinese supermissile.
Landlocked BMD can,at least theoretically,protect land.
But wait,there is more!Land-based systems can theoretically intercept something mid-course.Which is awesome,because modern ICBM,afaik,deploys counter-measures on or near re-entry,so there is a choice of one target mid-course or 150 on final trajectory.
Science!
Honestly, to a huge part of the international community, Russia and the US are the main villains veying for power at the expense of everyone else.I'm sure that's true, but the current topic is Ukraine, and in this case the US is not trying to invade it, Russia is.
Again, it wasnt the russians that supported a neo-nazi coup. And that us-promoted coup d'etat was what let neonazis into the government, who.immediatly began to.strip the minority rights of ethnic russians, which is what led russian-dominated Crimea to request military aid from Russia to protect against the neonazi paramilitary that again was a consequence of the US-sponsored coup.
Whether one wants to consider the russians moving in after the minority pleaded for theor help in the face of militant neonazis an invasion or not, there is no denying that theUS is up to its neck in this foul play.
Still not seeing neonazi coup or repression of ethnic russians.
You see,to repress someone,you need control of them first.
Or they'll shoot you in the face.
Excuse me,sir,i have a question.
Who uses ballistic missiles against fleet?
Well,exept rumors of chinese supermissile.
Landlocked BMD can,at least theoretically,protect land.
But wait,there is more!Land-based systems can theoretically intercept something mid-course.Which is awesome,because modern ICBM,afaik,deploys counter-measures on or near re-entry,so there is a choice of one target mid-course or 150 on final trajectory.
Science!
LOL, Wut? I don't even...
Still not seeing neonazi coup or repression of ethnic russians.You see,to repress someone,you need control of them first.
Or they'll shoot you in the face.
Agreed. There is strong evidence that whoever administers/manages infowars has suffered severe head trauma.
Huh? It is a coup that heavily utilizedneonazis as a sgreet force and put them ito the government, soon thereafter removing juridical protection from minority groups. How is that not a neonazi coup?
That infowars is completely bonkers doesnt really have anythig to do with it, the only thing they were used as a source for was american mercs fighting for the neonazis which is at best a sidenote but largely irrelevant to the bigger picture.
Its hard to believe the credibility of "news" that throws the word "junta" in there 16 times.
Its hard to believe the credibility of "news" that throws the word "junta" in there 16 times.
Here's something completely different.
But then,this guy sanctioned massive missile strikes against mostly civilian city....american mercs fighting for the neonazis which is at best a sidenote but largely irrelevant to the bigger picture.
Objection.
Who pays these guys?Because it isn't Ukraine.They have no money like at all.
Here's something completely different.
But then,this guy sanctioned massive missile strikes against mostly civilian city....
I assume you mean Saakashvili?
Which particular massive missile strikes are you referring to? Presumably from Georgia's "massive" arsenal of missiles.
Which particular massive missile strikes are you referring to? Presumably from Georgia's "massive" arsenal of missiles.
Terminology fail from my side.BM-21 is rocket launcher,not missile.
Still there was more than a batallion of them on Georgia's side in South Ossetia campaign.Something like 20 tons of pain in one salvo.
Demonstration.
|
NATO release sat images of Russian build up.
But these are bases in Russia. If they were Russian bases in the Ukraine we could believe the conflict with nato's plan to annex eastern Ukraine is a possibility.
OTOH,fun fact:my family owns a house near AFB on which afaik stationed the only unit of Mi-28 attack helicopters in russian airforce.NATO release sat images of Russian build up.
But these are bases in Russia. If they were Russian bases in the Ukraine we could believe the conflict with nato's plan to annex eastern Ukraine is a possibility.
Number of sightings of said helicopters dropped dramatically in a last few months.
Almost as if these helicopters are no longer there)
.
.
.
Wait,there are russian bases in Ukraine?
Well,i have a photo somewhere with a few SAM batteries deployed to Crimea...
OTOH,fun fact:my family owns a house near AFB on which afaik stationed the only unit of Mi-28 attack helicopters in russian airforce.NATO release sat images of Russian build up.
But these are bases in Russia. If they were Russian bases in the Ukraine we could believe the conflict with nato's plan to annex eastern Ukraine is a possibility.
Number of sightings of said helicopters dropped dramatically in a last few months.
Almost as if these helicopters are no longer there)
Dude, if your ideas are so out thereyellow dingo has to be the voice of sanity for you its time to check into belvue.
Dude, if your ideas
These are hard facts,not ideas.Either the whole fleet is grounded,or it's somewhere else.
Vlad: who cares who pays them? There could.be a multitude of interested parties, both states and corporations who have an i.terest in the outcome. And thig is, infowars is a non-source, up there with the lizard president and fake moonlanding people. So right now we only have your word to go on. Im not sayig youre lying, but until theres a more substantial source theres not going to be a meaningful discussion.
And even when we have a source and even if proven the EU or US pays them, or say the neofascist coalition in the eu parlianent, it still doesbt prove much beyond what we already know: that the EU and US is supporting the coup d'etat in order to make Ukraine the economic b!+~% of the EU. Physical invasion is unnecessarry regardless, they just have to make sure the neonazis win and crush the populace into submission, dismantling public service, unions and any resemblance of free speech. Then the EU has a nice economic slave.
Then the EU has a nice economic slave.
I,honestly,don't get that.
Ukraine is really poor,and will not get any richer.So,what's the point?
The point is to have really poor countries with an easily exploitable working class, that will try to move to other european countries where they act as wage dumpers and a way for the local fascists go splinter worker organization.
Thats the way they did with the baltic countries. Force them into poverty, dismantle any.social security. Now.lithauans come here looking for jobs, geting exploited for near no wage, allowibg the swedish state to render unions powerless by.claiming swddish wagestandards dont have to apply to foreign workers. Thus ensuring wage dumping for everyone, and cheap servants for the upper class.
Theyre already doing the same to Greece and to some extent spain and italy, using neonazis in those countries too, and Im sure ukraine will go the same way
european countries
Ukraine is not a european country.
How long,on average,it takes from association to membership,again?
european countriesUkraine is not a european country.
How long,on average,it takes from association to membership,again?
Ukraine couts as part of Europe, doesnt it? Wikipedia seems to suggest it does.
the important part isnt juridical though; rules are easily changed when its in the rule makers interest. Theyve already dropped requirements such as protection for qtblg peoplefrom their requirements for Ukraie to join EU, so I suspect they aim Ukraine to join before Svoboda leaves the government.
Ukraine couts as part of Europe, doesnt it?
It's not in the EU.So,average ukrainian can't work in EU.
Also,what's the procedure of obtaining membership?
The procedure is basically "make th laws that EU requires and they voteto let you in". Curently they seem to be dropping required laws, implying they want Ukraine to join ASAP. But even before they legally join, having them in a stranglehold because they want to join is beneficial to the EU upper class.
The EU tends to more or less drop all requirements the countries oppose or make exceptions, except when it comes to establishing laizes faire capitalism and frakking over social security. Those two parts arent negotiable, but stuff like human rights tend to be.
Still not seeing neonazi coup or repression of ethnic russians.
Outside of
PravdaRT or conspiracy websites anyway.
'S true.
Things look pretty different when you read theCommittee on Public Information press releases NY Times.
Mostly just posting to learn how to do that slash-thing, but "fun fact" I ran across in some commie rag: Backing fascistic, anti-Semtitic, Ukrainian nationalists is nothing new for the United States. These Svoboda and Right Sector thugs (whom I don't think the CPI even deign to mention in their randomly selected month old op-ed piece) all worship a dude named Stepan Bandera who, alas, survived WWII and continued to lead a guerilla war against the USSR, funded by the CIA and prominently featured on Radio Free Europe, until the KGB finally assassinated him in 1959. Huzzah!
But, anyway, back to the now: Duelling Imperialist Propaganda Wars: I love it!
Down with Sexy Putin!
Down with EU/US/IMF Bloodsuckers!
Down with Princess Leia and Crazy Assassinated Right Sector Dude and Down with I don't even know who else, I haven't been paying attention!
Workers: Sweep all this crap into the dustbin of history!
Vive le Galt!
Crazy Assassinated Right Sector Dude
Didn't you heard?
He committed suicide after taking policeman's gun by shooting himself in the chest.Through the bulletproof vest.Twice.This is so not a joke.
Which particular massive missile strikes are you referring to? Presumably from Georgia's "massive" arsenal of missiles.
Terminology fail from my side.BM-21 is rocket launcher,not missile.
Still there was more than a batallion of them on Georgia's side in South Ossetia campaign.
Something like 20 tons of pain in one salvo.
Demonstration.
I do know the difference between rockets and missiles. I am more interested in your lack of quoted source(s) as you have not been short of them in your anti-Ukrainian rants.
I also found it intriguing in looking at the conflicts between Georgia and Abkhazia/South Ossetia in 2008 and the early 90s how Russian troops and "volunteers" were active in fighting against Georgia. Yet you claim no Russian troop involvement in the annexation of the Crimea despite a clear precedent and plenty of reliable of evidence.
In both cases Russia supported pro-Russian minorities against the legitimate government in breach of international norms and law.
I am more interested in your lack of quoted source(s) as you have not been short of them in your anti-Ukrainian rants.
I am faar too lazy to find and translate russian AAR from half a decade ago.I recommend starting from english wiki and google from there.With luck you can even find the video like i provided,but from other side(i remember seeing it in .08).For obvious reasons there are more surviving evidence on the russian side.
Also,where are my rants anti-Ukrainian?My rants are solely targeted at these stupid (censored)(censored)(BEEP)which passes for central government of Ukraine these days.
I,as any normal russian,have nothing against,and can't have anything against Ukraine and ukrainians.
Yet you claim no Russian troop involvement in the annexation of the Crimea despite plenty of reliable of evidence.
Nope.I claim that evidence is circumstantial at best.It literally can be anybody,up to and including local airsoft club.Doesn't change the fact that is WAS russians:)And of course,now with reunified Crimea,what evidence there was are no longer exists.Obviously!
And international law is very flexible these days,it seems.
I am more interested in your lack of quoted source(s) as you have not been short of them in your anti-Ukrainian rants.
I am faar too lazy to find and translate russian AAR from half a decade ago.I recommend starting from english wiki and google from there.With luck you can even find the video like i provided,but from other side(i remember seeing it in .08).For obvious reasons there are more surviving evidence on the russian side.
Also,where are my rants anti-Ukrainian?
My rants are solely targeted at these stupid (censored)(censored)(BEEP)which passes for central government of Ukraine these days.
I,as any normal russian,have nothing against,and can't have anything against Ukraine and ukrainians.
Given your attempts to support your position to date, if I were you I wouldn't be going around suggesting research methods to other people.
If, as you claim, you have nothing against Ukrainians, then why aren't you up in arms about the illegal annexation of territory of a sovereign country? As opposed to using some pretty specious and bewildering arguments to try and say black is white.
Yet you claim no Russian troop involvement in the annexation of the Crimea despite plenty of reliable of evidence.
Nope.I claim that evidence is circumstantial at best.It literally can be anybody,up to and including local airsoft club.Doesn't change the fact that is WAS russians:)And of course,now with reunified Crimea,what evidence there was are no longer exists.Obviously!
And international law is very flexible these days,it seems.
You'd be surprised how tenacious evidence can be and how it comes back to bite criminals (both individuals and state actors) in the butt. I'm sure plenty of WW2 concentration camp guards thought they were safe 40, 50, 60 years after the war……..
Given your attempts to support your position to date, if I were you I wouldn't be going around suggesting research methods to other people.
Good thing you aren't me then.Oh well.
Here's one of the original news reports from .08Clearly states that BM-21 were used.Also this states that Georgia used BM-21s against Tskhinvali AGAIN and were supressed.Possibly by BM-21 in demonstration video.
Usage of BM-21s against was actually centerpoint of Osetian propaganda during the war,which claimed 2000 civilian deaths from bombardment.
Which is a lie,but only because city was practically deserted.
You'd be surprised how tenacious evidence can be and how it comes back to bite criminals (both individuals and state actors) in the butt.
I'm pretty sure criminals these days are those who lost the war of some kind.Saakashvili,anyone?
If Russia loses next big war,i'll probably be dead.Hell,i'll be dead even if it wins,ABM or not.And a looot of other people.So your argument is kinda irrelevant.
Still not seeing neonazi coup or repression of ethnic russians.
Outside of
PravdaRT or conspiracy websites anyway.'S true.
Things look pretty different when you read the
Committee on Public Information press releasesNY Times.Mostly just posting to learn how to do that slash-thing, but "fun fact" I ran across in some commie rag: Backing fascistic, anti-Semtitic, Ukrainian nationalists is nothing new for the United States. These Svoboda and Right Sector thugs (whom I don't think the CPI even deign to mention in their randomly selected month old op-ed piece) all worship a dude named Stepan Bandera who, alas, survived WWII and continued to lead a guerilla war against the USSR, funded by the CIA and prominently featured on Radio Free Europe, until the KGB finally assassinated him in 1959. Huzzah!
But, anyway, back to the now: Duelling Imperialist Propaganda Wars: I love it!
Down with Sexy Putin!
Down with EU/US/IMF Bloodsuckers!
Down with Princess Leia and Crazy Assassinated Right Sector Dude and Down with I don't even know who else, I haven't been paying attention!
Workers: Sweep all this crap into the dustbin of history!
Vive le Galt!
Okay, I give up. How do you do the slash thing? Whoops, never mind.
Given your attempts to support your position to date, if I were you I wouldn't be going around suggesting research methods to other people.Good thing you aren't me then.Oh well.
Here's one of the original news reports from .08
Clearly states that BM-21 were used.Also this states that Georgia used BM-21s against Tskhinvali AGAIN and were supressed.Possibly by BM-21 in demonstration video.
Usage of BM-21s against was actually centerpoint of Osetian propaganda during the war,which claimed 2000 civilian deaths from bombardment.
Which is a lie,but only because city was practically deserted.
You'd be surprised how tenacious evidence can be and how it comes back to bite criminals (both individuals and state actors) in the butt.I'm pretty sure criminals these days are those who lost the war of some kind.Saakashvili,anyone?
If Russia loses next big war,i'll probably be dead.Hell,i'll be dead even if it wins,ABM or not.And a looot of other people.
So your argument is kinda irrelevant.
I'm not talking about "the next war" (or for that matter your bizarre tangents on ABMs), just your commentary on current and past ones. Why is Shaskavili a criminal? Because during the 2008 conflict Georgian troops shelled South Ossetian positions in Tskhinvali? The South Ossetian positions that were located in civilian buildings, including schools?
Any civilian deaths are unfortunate, but a lot more Georgian civilians were killed by South Ossetian and Russian forces, plus many thousands displaced.
but a lot more Georgian civilians were killed by South Ossetian and Russian forces
Maybe you have UN investigation report to support that claim?
A lot more georgian military died than osetian civilians,yes,but that's kinda expected when you wrestle with the bear.Why is Shaskavili a criminal?
Because he's on the losing side and started this war to boot.
but a lot more Georgian civilians were killed by South Ossetian and Russian forcesMaybe you have UN investigation report to support that claim?
A lot more georgian military died than osetian civilians,yes,but that's kinda expected when you wrestle with the bear.
Why bring up Georgian military deaths? Just another diversion by you.
As for a UN investigation report - try Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, the EU among others. There's probably some UN report in it somewhere, but all three agencies above were critical of both sides, including of Russian and South Ossetian authorities inflating civilian casualty figures.Why is Shaskavili a criminal?Because he's on the losing side and started this war to boot.
So reclaiming national territory is wrong? It may not have been the smartest move taking on Russia* but South Ossetia and Abkahzia are legally Georgian. You know, just like the Crimea is Ukrainian.
And the longer it was not under Georgian control the harder it would be to get it back. Prior to the ethnic cleansing in 92/93 by Abkhazi troops and assorted Russian hangers-on, over 50% of the population was Georgian.
* which raises the question why were Russian forces, both military and paramilitary, so heavily involved in the early 90s in assisting South Ossetian forces to ethnically cleanse Georgians from South Ossetia. Seems it is ok for Russia to do whatever it wants in neighbouring countries but not for those countries to take actions in their own territory….
Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, the EU
,Greenpeace...
Only UN matters.Others have the reputation of selling out.Seems it is ok for Russia
In other news:grass is green.
NEWSFLASH:russians used said BM-21 to bombard Grozny to stone age in both first and second chechen wars.Civilian city.NATO in last two decades used everything in it's arsenal short of nukes against targets both civilian and military.
Might makes right,this is how world works.
And criminals are those who lost.
And now for something completely different:
Next move in dueling imperial propaganda battle!
:\
Also,while i'm here,here is possibly fake photo
First is Crimea after referendum,second is Slavyansk,tactically important city about halfway from rebel-controlled cities to Kharkov...today.
God this guy is packing.
Video of one awesome dog.There is also storming of local police department.Commentary available in Russian
By my understanding,Slavyansk,today.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, the EU,Greenpeace...
Only UN matters.Others have the reputation of selling out.
So apparently only the UN is a reliable source of information, yet you'll happily quote unreliable media sources, discount reliable ones and basically ignore anything that doesn't support your position, up to and including statements by Russian soldiers in the Crimea that they are Russian soldiers in the Crimea. If only the UN matters, presumably in terms of what can be considered reliable, accurate and impartial, what does that say about all the arguments you have been presenting?
NATO in last two decades used everything in it's arsenal short of nukes against targets both civilian and military.
Might makes right,this is how world works.
The difference is any actions by NATO have been authorised by UN resolutions and the like. Russia's weren't. Nor does NATO deliberately target civilians. Russia and its proxies do.
So apparently only the UN is a reliable source of information, yet you'll happily quote unreliable media sources
You see,i get my info from the sources on the scene,mostly.I quote first hit in google that says something like that in english.
Russian soldiers in the Crimea that they are Russian soldiers in the Crimea.
I say again,i can gear in,pose on camera,and say that i'm a russian soldier.Doesn't make me a russian soldier at all.
If only the UN matters
Only because you can't buy UN investigators that easily.UN is responsible for some of the worst wars in the last decade.
what does that say about all the arguments you have been presenting?
That you are biased,of course.As am i.That's perfectly OK.
The difference is any actions by NATO have been authorised by UN resolutions and the like.
Of course not.Doesn't stop ANYBODY with a big enough stick.
Nor does NATO deliberately target civilians.
So...much...propaganda!
I'll tell you a secret.More than one,even.First of all,NOBODY in their right mind targets civilians during a war,if only because that accomplishes nothing,and modern cruise missile costs upwards from 1m$.Second,Russia is not a USSR.It doesn't have proxies.Well,at least no-one that matters.For example,Belarus is not a proxy,and not always even friendly.
And third,main difference between modern NATO's operations and Russia's operations is indirect damage.For example,in Libya,NATO intervention killed maybe a hundreds directly.But Libya is now a failed state,civil war costed tens of thousands,WHICH MAY HAVE BEEN AVOIDED,and will cost more in the future.
Russian operation in Georgia?Country still functions,still there,and,i heard,is a better place for georgian to live than under Saakashvili.
And let's not even talk about Syria.NATO not yet even invaded,and death toll is upwards from 100k.
There are no good guys in the world.
But russians,in this day and age,are more...polite.
They will not kill hundreds of thousands AND destroy your country just because they don't like you or may not like you in the future.
But make no mistake,there are no good guys.Same russians annihilated Afganistan in eighties,for example.
Bonus:explanation of polite people without a wall of text.
According to this guy,someone started anti-terrorist operation in Slavyansk.
I said earlier,it is one of the more tactically important cities.
What passes for terrorists this days in Ukraine?
I don't care,i'll get paid either way!(c)
Also,Kramatorsk.
Even i don't know where it is,but lots of shooting there.Good thing both sides have nothing but blanks.
Also lots of swearing and operator is....err...strange.
Supression Time 2:Electric Boogaloo.
Multiple shooting incidents across territories taken yesterday.At least three wounded reported.
This is important because before there wasn't any shooting incidents.Because blanks.
Pictures!
National guard in Artyomovsk.
Who needs these weapons,anyway?
Worst.
Army.
EVER!
Ukrainian acting president launched large anti-terrorist operation against rebels.Using,among other things,army.
Oh well.This guy is sooo dead.Even Yanukovich didn't use army.
Said Yanukovich appeared again and urged army to ignore criminal orders from illegal government.
I,actually,don't see any substantial evidence that rebels are terrorists.You can't win support of the population using terror tactics.
Fun and little-known fact:Ukrainian Oath of Enlistment is not to country,president or something.
It's to Ukrainian people.
Makes kinda hard to use army in "anti-terrorist"ops.
Rebels near Slavyansk intercepted truck belonged to National Guard loaded with rockets for BM-21.
Something like a hour remains till deadline of ultimatum to rebels,so...
Musical Interlude
Bonus!
Things are gettibg reaaally s@~@ty. And the media in my coubtry is pretty much silebt, apart from the occacional "putin is a meanie"-rant. Most meaningful info i get from this thread, actually, especially quandarys posts.
Things are gettibg reaaally s&*+ty.
Not yet they don't.Deadline has passed,and we're still waiting for the hammer to fall.
"putin is a meanie"-rant
You should listen to latest UN Security Council meeting)
Apparently Russia is the only country in the world with any kind of military.And ukrainian Afghanistan vets just died out.All of them.But important points were raised.Protesters in southeast are,literally,nothing like Maidan.Those had molotovs and melee weapons,and just sat there doing nothing exept occasional clashes with police.
Which is why i think that southeasterns are rebels,and not protesters.
They don't protest,they are actively taking control.
In other news:
Mr.Turchinov calls for UN peacekeepers.
There are proper procedures for that,but who reads UN charter,anyway?
Storming of building in Kramatorsk
You decide...normal "protesters" taking the building...or something else?
I'm not positive exactly what to think, lots of reporters it looked like.
taking the building...or something else?
Something else,of course.Arsenal,namely.