A blog that highlights some of the differences that are not taken into account. Be aware, that on many university and other applications...Asian does NOT count you in for minority benefits...
http://www.zakkeith.com/articles,blogs,forums/anti-Chinese-persecution-in-t he-USA-history-timeline.htm
This doesn't really even discuss Indians or Pakistanis, or even SE/SW Asians as this blog is more for what you would consider the successful Asian...
•Until 2001, US laws against ethnic-Chinese immigration and property ownership (Alien Land Acts) remained intact in states such as Wyoming.
•In 2011—2013, Asians continued to be openly denigrated by perpetrators who expect impunity, asserting that their behavior falls entirely within the acceptable norm. US-born basketball superstar Jeremy Lin was stereotyped, patronized and called names in the US mainstream media, such as “two-inch penis,” “fortune cookie,” “yellow mamba,” “kung fu grip,” “chink in the armor,” “FOB” and “from Taiwan.”
Following the crash of Asiana flight 214 at San Francisco Airport, California's KTVU broadcasted a report with fake pilot names: “Sum Ting Wong,” “Wi Tu Lo,” “Ho Lee Fuk” and “Bang Ding Ow,” while other mainstream media was rife with mentions of “Fright 214.” Los Angeles band, Day Above Ground, released Asian Girlz, a music video comprising highly derogatory, sexist-racist lyrics, and subsequently defended it as a “celebration of Asian women.” ABC’s Jimmy Kimmel Live aired a segment suggesting that the US kill all Chinese people to resolve its US$1.3 trillion trade imbalance with China.
•In 1995, the US federal Glass Ceiling Commission found that Asian Americans are paid less than whites in most occupational categories—even after controlling for educational level, immigrant status and other variables. In strict social-science terms, the data is robust: Asian Americans and whites are not treated equally, and the difference can be attributed either to race or to nothing at all.
•In 2009, an exhaustive study published by sociologists at Princeton Uinversity found that when measured on an all-things-being-equal basis, Asian Americans were required to score at least 140 points higher than whites on standardized tests, in order to qualify for admission into top universities.
•Asians, who currently represent 5% of the US population, continue to be severely underrepresented as a minority group in movies. Asian actors were still being funneled into negative stereotyped roles. (Hollywood is yet to grant a starring role to an Asian male unless it is innseparable from their identity as a foreigner with martial-arts skills. Asian females are portrayed as sexually available to Caucasians and occasionally African-Americans, while Asian males are desexualized and never shown as consummating a relationship with a Caucasian female. See Hollywood Asian stereotypes.)
•2006: A Chinese applicant to Princeton University with near-perfect scores, Jian Li, files a civil rights complaint against the university for discriminatory policies that favor blacks and Hispanics while disfavoring Asians. On January 17, the Daily Princetonian publishes a guest column in mock chinglish, under the pseudonym “Lian Ji,” in which the writer parodies Li’s attitude and experiences:“I so good at math and science ... I the super smart Asian. Princeton the super dumb college, not accept me ... My dad from Kung Pao province. I united 500 years of Rice Wars ... I love Yale. Lots of bulldogs here for me to eat.” (Ironically, an exhaustive study will later be published by Princeton sociologists in 2009, proving the existence widespread discrimination against Asian Americans in the admissions process.)
•2009: An exhaustive study is published by Princeton sociologists who, after an extensive review the admission data from 10 Ivy League universities in the US, conclude that, when measured on an all-things-being-equal basis, Asian Americans are required to score at least 140 points higher than whites on standardized tests, in order to qualify for admission into top universities. The discrepancy is even greater in comparison with blacks and Hispanics, with Asian Americans needing to score at least 450 points higher in order to be on equal footing for college admissions.
lthough the Alien Land Laws in many states have been repealed, challenges to legislation restricting alien land ownership have generally failed. US Courts continue to uphold the right of state legislatures to restrict alien rights to property, meaning that although most of these restrictions have been repealed, they can be reinstituted at any time. Since the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, these issues are being revisited primarily by the federal government rather than individual states.
Asians currently constitute nearly 5% of the US population—one out of every twenty US citizens is of Asian descent, many of whom are fully acculturated “Americans.” Yet, “Asian” continues to be equated with “foreign,” and associated with a range of negative stereotypes.
Studies continue to indicate that Asians in the West are plagued with Perpetual Foreigner Syndrome—regarded as inherently inassimilable. Fallacious utterances such as “there were some Asian faces among the Americans” can still be heard, betraying the lingering concept of Manifest Destiny—the assumption is that by default, “Americans” are Caucasians or at most, black, while Asians remain outside the equation
AND THIS IS JUST FOR CHINESE which are considered to have a better and higher success rate than other Asians. If this is what success is...consider what the other Asians are experiencing.
A blog that highlights some of the differences that are not taken into account. Be aware, that on many university and other applications...Asian does NOT count you in for minority benefits...
http://www.zakkeith.com/articles,blogs,forums/anti-Chinese-persecution-in-t he-USA-history-timeline.htm
This doesn't really even discuss Indians or Pakistanis, or even SE/SW Asians as this blog is more for what you would consider the successful Asian...
•Until 2001, US laws against ethnic-Chinese immigration and property ownership (Alien Land Acts) remained intact in states such as Wyoming.
•In 2011—2013, Asians continued to be openly denigrated by perpetrators who expect impunity, asserting that their behavior falls entirely within the acceptable norm. US-born basketball superstar Jeremy Lin was stereotyped, patronized and called names in the US mainstream media, such as “two-inch penis,” “fortune cookie,” “yellow mamba,” “kung fu grip,” “chink in the armor,” “FOB” and “from Taiwan.”
Following the crash of Asiana flight 214 at San Francisco Airport, California's KTVU broadcasted a report with fake pilot names: “Sum Ting Wong,” “Wi Tu Lo,” “Ho Lee Fuk” and “Bang Ding Ow,” while other mainstream media was rife with mentions of “Fright 214.” Los Angeles band, Day Above Ground, released Asian Girlz, a music video comprising highly derogatory, sexist-racist lyrics, and subsequently defended it as a “celebration of Asian women.” ABC’s Jimmy Kimmel Live aired a segment suggesting that the US kill all Chinese people to resolve its US$1.3 trillion trade imbalance with China.•In 1995, the US federal Glass Ceiling Commission found that Asian Americans are paid less than whites in most occupational categories—even after controlling for educational level, immigrant status and other variables. In strict social-science terms, the data is robust: Asian Americans and whites are not treated equally, and the difference can be attributed either to race or to nothing at all.
•In 2009, an exhaustive study...
No one is denying that there is discrimination.
You've specifically made the claim that the 14th Amendment doesn't apply to people of Asian ethnicities. I'm asking you to back up that claim.
Not from a blog
http://yellow-face.com/asian-discrimination.htm
The Magnuson Act was repealed in 1965—up until then, Asian Americans in all 50 states (including US citizens) were not only legally disfranchised but subjected to high rents and punitive taxes. US laws against ethnic-Chinese immigration and property ownership (Alien Land Acts) in such states as Wyoming stayed intact until 2001.
And apparently it's only been suspended, not written off the books or done away with.
Just because something is unconstitutional does NOT mean it's not enforced by Federal or State law.
For example, in some minority education grants, even though Asian and Native American are considered minorities, they are specifically excluded whilst all others are included.
You could state that all Jim Crow laws are unconstitutional, that did not prevent them from being on the books and enforced 80 to 100 years worth.
From what I've read, it was NOT striken off the book, but was held suspended by Federal courts, but not taken off due to the fact that in the case, it was deemed Federal laws would not interfere with state laws in certain circumstances. Hence it would be up to individual states on whether to have the laws or not. However, in regards to Federal law and statutes, the Federal law would not uphold the state law in that regards.
But isn't that the point: Discrimination against all minorities isn't the same. Applying the same solutions to all minorities isn't the fix. By that argument we should be helping those of "southeast asian descent, or even Chinese ethnic minorities" in exactly the same way we help "first or second generation East Asian (Japanese, Korean, Han Chinese) families." Even though they have very different experiences and problems.Do you think that the solutions for solving problems in the two communities are going to be identical?
I'd put forward the issues for black and asian students at ivy league schools are pretty different. While they both suffer some discrimination, the forms and results that it takes are pretty different.
But you can only come to this conclusion if you lump all asians in together, which I believe is half of the OP's point. Persons of southeast asian descent, or even Chinese ethnic minorities, have a very different experience to that of first or second generation East Asian (Japanese, Korean, Han Chinese) families.
I agree with you that the "X is discriminated against therefore we can't help Y" paradigm is nonsensical, but it's at least worth mentally distinguishing between distinct ethnic and socioeconomic groups when we are talking about social mobility.
I believe that's exactly what I just said. The whole of my point is that having a greater amount of granularity in how we distinguish between ethnic groups helps us better assess who is the subject of discrimination and identify possible solutions.
IT keeps up with the mantra of, hey, let's stop comparing X to Y insomuch as who has it worse off, and my point is that's the only way you're going to be able to get an idea of the differences in experiences between ethnic minorities: statistical comparison.
IT keeps up with the mantra of, hey, let's stop comparing X to Y insomuch as who has it worse off, and my point is that's the only way you're going to be able to get an idea of the differences in experiences between ethnic minorities: statistical comparison.
There's a difference between analyzing the differences in an attempt to better understand and comparing them in a pissing contest of who is worse off in an effort to end programs that might be benefiting certain groups.
I'm not opposed to examining the situation of Asian-Americans and how they're being discriminated against. Comparing them to other minorities in an attempt to note differences and how programs might affect them different is useful. Comparing them in an attempt to shut down conversation about other minorities is not.
Right off the bat, without even land laws.
Asian Americans are excluded from Affirmative Action in regards to college admissions and grants.
Now while I don't specifically agree with the site's conclusion in this article, it does point out the reasons and whys, as well as difficulties
http://www.asian-nation.org/affirmative-action.shtml
These days, there are still many differing opinions on affirmative action among Asian Americans. While public opinion surveys generally show that a majority of Asian Americans support affirmative action, many in our communities believe that American society is indeed a meritocracy and that everyone should be judged purely on his/her abilities, rather than ethnic identity. As Asian-Nation discusses in many articles, there is a lot of diversity in the Asian American community, and that includes views about affirmative action.
Since affirmative action programs were first implemented, many Asian Americans have achieved remarkably high levels of education, economic, and occupational attainment. This socioeconomic success has led many colleges and companies to no longer consider Asian Americans as an "underrepresented" minority group and therefore, are no longer eligible to be included in such affirmative action guidelines and programs.
Unfortunately, in doing so, many colleges and companies demonstrate that they have not learned the fundamental lesson that not all Asian Americans are the same, and that not all are successful. Specifically, many Pacific Islanders and some Southeast Asian groups (i.e., Laotian, Cambodian, Hmong, etc.) are still struggling socioeconomically, are still "underrepresented" in such institutions, and therefore should still be included in such affirmative action programs.
.....
With their more conservative conclusion being
In short, the data seems to be inconclusive regarding affirmative action's current effect on Asian Americans. For now, again reflecting the wide diversity that exists within the Asian American community, the simple answer seems to be that some affirmative action programs hurt some Asian Americans, while other programs help other Asian Americans
--------------------
My personal thoughts are that affirmative action does help minorities, and simply excluding minorities in college benefits because they are not the "right" minority is not necessarily a good thing.
Take into effect that Asians have to score higher on test than just about everyone else JUST TO GET INTO college...shows a distinct discrimination against Asian Americans, irregardless if your discriminatory stereotype says they should be able to do that anyways.
More articles just on this one subject of discrimination vs. others...as a simple and basic example.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2012/08/27/should-asians-be-excluded-from -affirmative-action-programsdiversity-scholarships-in-the-united-states/
http://racerelations.about.com/od/diversitymatters/a/DoesAffirmativeActionA ddressIntraRacialDivides.htm
https://litigation-essentials.lexisnexis.com/webcd/app?action=DocumentDispl ay&crawlid=1&doctype=cite&docid=38+U.C.+Davis+L.+Rev.+545&s rctype=smi&srcid=3B15&key=c720949478a8b622b885d6c2cae48a49
http://www.thenation.com/blog/asian-americans-affirmative-action
OF note, many of these articles also mirror what I'm stating about discrimination against SE Asians. However, in this context, this is more simple and blatant than looking at the property laws...as this is something on the government level.
Right now, I'm more curious at what laws you think specifically exclude Asian-Americans from being protected by the 14th Amendment. You stated this multiple times, can you back it up?
As far as constitutionally protected rights...in your dreams.
Jim Crow laws STILL exist.
Why are we discussing Wyoming. Wyoming STILL has it on the books, but as we stated, it's on hold due to the Federal Court.
Florida, on the otherhand, from what I can tell...STILL has the alien land law in effect, though rarely brought into legalities...it's still there.
They actually tried to amend it out in a 2008 election and vote...ironically...it was defeated.
http://ballotpedia.org/Florida_Property_Rights_and_Illegal_Aliens_Act,_Amen dment_1_(2008)
More recent commentary on this...as perhaps the Florida Bar was taking a look at it a few years back?
While the provision directly affects all aliens ineligible for citizenship, the provision also affects each Floridian by supporting discriminatory practices, similar to the ‘Jim Crow’ laws of the Old South. The origins of the law are rooted in the Asian populations who worked in the West to settle America, notably the derogatorily named ‘Coolies’ who built the railroads, and is thus particularly offensive to the Asian American population. All Floridians need to address this discriminatory issue, as Florida is the last state in the United States to maintain such an antiquated and unenforceable provision of law.”
GOAABA will be hosting an educational event concerning Florida’s Alien Land Law in August 2011 (date and venue TBA). The Florida Bar Foundation provides support to this event.
IT keeps up with the mantra of, hey, let's stop comparing X to Y insomuch as who has it worse off, and my point is that's the only way you're going to be able to get an idea of the differences in experiences between ethnic minorities: statistical comparison.There's a difference between analyzing the differences in an attempt to better understand and comparing them in a pissing contest of who is worse off in an effort to end programs that might be benefiting certain groups.
I'm not opposed to examining the situation of Asian-Americans and how they're being discriminated against. Comparing them to other minorities in an attempt to note differences and how programs might affect them different is useful. Comparing them in an attempt to shut down conversation about other minorities is not.
Never was trying to shut down the conversation in regards to other minorities. I actually support Affirmative Action. What I'm looking at is how discrimination is continued in regards to other minorities, while it is battled for others.
My thoughts are that ALL minorities should be given equal chances and aid, not just the minorities with the biggest numbers. Currently, as it stands, there are programs that are supposed to help minorities, but when you look at it, they are really only designed to help the largest groups of minorities. If you fall into a minority that is a smaller subset (Such as Asians, Native Americans)...lord help you. There is no help...you'll have to score 450 points over others just to get in because...well...because they don't want you there in college.
Heck, you have to outscore every other person just for being Asian...and if you don't...well you don't get to go to school.
I'm not saying that they should rescind AA for African Americans, I'm saying that allowing that type of discrimination against a smaller minority simply because...is NOT a good excuse.
That while focus on discrimination (even today) is on larger groups of people (African Americans, heck, even the LGBT crowd which has a larger percentage has more discussion about it), that with how apparent and vocal the discrimination is (I mean, Miley Cyrus gets to make a slanted Asian reference which is in itself discriminatory, and it's basically overlooked, but if she had done something similar to an African American she would be ostracized in the media).
I'm thinking more attention should be given in supporting the rights of other minorities that are not the majority minority. I'm not advocating reducing the rights or discussion of the larger minorities, simply stating that discrimination against smaller minorities is either ignored, or sometimes even promoted in the US. This is something that should be corrected, and perhaps discussing HOW this type of discrimination could be correct...is an appropriate place.
For starters, if the US president actually noted that there was MORE discrimination than simply that against African Americans (and his sideline, which was in regards to Hispanics), and that there are many minority groups that ALSO could benefit...that could be a start.
Education, such as how Black History month comes to the forefront...utilize something in the schools to show how Asians, Hispanics, Native Americans, and others also need to be respected and their cultures respected. Make it just as offensive to call an Asian or Hispanic one of the many Asian derogatory terms as it is to call an African American a derogatory term.
There's a whole bunch of things to do. It's not tearing down others...so much as trying to bring up the other minorities to at least an equal setting, or perhaps something more being the others footstool.
You're claiming no one calls African-Americans names on television?
Gwl, I have no idea what you're talking about. Asians have to score higher to get into college? Asians score higher overall. No one wants native americans? I know native Americans have at least one scholarship at my college. Can you be a bit more specific? Not saying bigotry towards anyone doesn't exist, but I'm having trouble figuring out where you're going here.
So, if I understand the attitudes I've seen expressed in the thread, just like the US in general, EVERYONE wants to discriminate against anyone who isn't African American or white?
Is that what I'm understanding. That because you view discrimination as okay against anyone not white or African American, you will justify, make excuses, or plain ignore discrimination against anyone else?
no offense, but that's the overall feeling I'm getting from the thread.
Which I suppose shouldn't surprise me...as that seems the overall attitude in the US as well, and why it's so hard for many minorities (not just African Americans) to receive any equality in the US in many locations.
So, if I understand the attitudes I've seen expressed in the thread, just like the US in general, EVERYONE wants to discriminate against anyone who isn't African American or white?
Please bold where someone stated that in this thread. Because I haven't noticed it.
Honestly at this point, it seems like you're fighting a battle, but that battle isn't with anyone here. It's with people doing bad things in other places, but since they aren't here, you're battling with the people who are.
You don't want to talk to the people here, you want to talk at them.
You have lost me, for the most part. Almost everyone hates bigotry against anyone. Black people are in the spotlight of late but it isn't okay against anyone.
The thing is, I've pointed out that there is SEVERE discrimination in the US against Asians (people talk about discrimination against African Americans, yet NO ONE has to score higher than everyone else by at least 100 points on average to get into a University. NO ONE has to score better grades and do better then others just to get into a university) (It's been accepted in popular culture to mock the Asian populace, both from East, Southeast, South, and Southwest/Mideastern, and in many ways is rift with mistrust against anyone the US populace perceives as Muslim) (on Benefits, grants, and other government applications Asians are exempt, in otherwords, disqualified from applying where other minorities are allowed)(alien land laws have court cases actually, and have affected some still living, but people want to ignore those laws and those it affects).
Instead of addressing ANY of these, excuses have been repeatedly made to try to justify this treatment, pretend it does not exist, or simply try to point out that treating minorities as minorities is not the issue and would detract from African American equalization (which in my opinion is not true).
Native Americans and the injustices and discrimination has been slightly acknowledge by some, but overly ignored in favor of trying to justify discrimination against Asians in this thread. The issue of Native Americans plight has largely been ignored in the discussions in favor of people trying to justify or belittle the effects of certain laws that actually still do affect Asians. The discussion is more than just Asians though, it's about how discrimination has played a way in how we are battling discrimination to the point that some races are more favored for equalization than others.
When you can say Asian slurs in Hollywood and no one blinks an eye, whereas if it was an African American slur...they would be so slammed by the News and Hollywood they wouldn't have time to blink...it shows how terrible the discrepancy is. However, it isn't just an Asian problem...Hispanics also have problems even counting themselves as a separate minority at times (for example, not that he was any good...in fact a pretty terrible guy in my opinion, but Zimmerman, of the Trayvon Martin Fame, was a Hispanic, counted as a Hispanic, recorded as a Hispanic, but the news all stated he was white in order to create sensationalism).
There's a major difficulty in the discrimination against other races...and it seems there is a priority of groups who are favored in the discrimination battles...with African Americans being the most favored of Minorities, and Asians and Native Americans being at the bottom of the heap which no one wants to help and even condone in the discrimination of them...at least in the US.
As I said, I shouldn't be shocked, but it is rather a horrifying show of the discrimination, or public acceptance of discrimination of other minorities by either justification or ignoring the issues
I was hoping on discussion on these issues, how people have seen them and HOW they may be able to be battled against, what we can do, and what can be done.
How to change the government policies and how to get ALL people under equal treatments, or at least ALL minorities.
The thing is, I've pointed out that there is SEVERE discrimination in the US against Asians (people talk about discrimination against African Americans, yet NO ONE has to score higher than everyone else by at least 100 points on average to get into a University. NO ONE has to score better grades and do better then others just to get into a university) (It's been accepted in popular culture to mock the Asian populace, both from East, Southeast, South, and Southwest/Mideastern, and in many ways is rift with mistrust against anyone the US populace perceives as Muslim) (on Benefits, grants, and other government applications Asians are exempt, in otherwords, disqualified from applying where other minorities are allowed)(alien land laws have court cases actually, and have affected some still living, but people want to ignore those laws and those it affects).
Instead of addressing ANY of these, excuses have been repeatedly made to try to justify this treatment, pretend it does not exist, or simply try to point out that treating minorities as minorities is not the issue and would detract from African American equalization (which in my opinion is not true).
Native Americans and the injustices and discrimination has been slightly acknowledge by some, but overly ignored in favor of trying to justify discrimination against Asians in this thread. The issue of Native Americans plight has largely been ignored in the discussions in favor of people trying to justify or belittle the effects of certain laws that actually still do affect Asians. The discussion is more than just Asians though, it's about how discrimination has played a way in how we are battling discrimination to the point that some races are more favored for equalization than others.
When you can say Asian slurs in Hollywood and no one blinks an eye, whereas if it was an African American slur...they would be so slammed by the News and Hollywood they wouldn't have time to blink...it shows how terrible the discrepancy is. However, it isn't just an...
I agree, there's racism present in this country and some of it is directed at Asians.
You've accused people in this thread of supporting that racism. Please bold where you think that specifically happened.
Hey! The forums look slightly different.
I don't like it.
*crosses arms*
Oh good, I've been running an antivirus trying to see if my settings went wonky...
And anothermage is going to need a new ignore script apparently...
I had a bit of a culture shock recently, when I applied for a job in the US.
There was this questionnaire you had to fill out, and the last question was, essentially, "are you black?" Which was a pretty big 'WTF?' moment for me. :p
A company would be in pretty big trouble if they asked questions like that, around here.
Well, they'll generally find out at the interview anyway. It's not like it's something you can hide indefinitely. I believe the theory is that keeping documentation can help prove that they're not discriminating.
I assume the question was part of the pre-interview screening process. Probably some sort of "diversity program".
But you haven't come anywhere near showing that the greatest discrimination is against Asian-Americans.
I'm not sure he ever has made such a claim. Seems more like he is claiming that in the case of Asian-Americans the discrimination is not even recognized, not that it is worse than the discrimination of African-Americans which at least recognized. Basically claiming people ignore the Asian-American discrimination because recognizing it isn't "in vogue" at the moment culturally.
Assume as you wish.
Uh. Thank you?
I suspect it was just for record keeping and not intended to be used for screening.
What would be the purpose of having my ethnicity on record?
Also, I just checked and that section of the questionnaire is literally called 'Diversity', so I suspect my guess is more accurate than yours.
I had a bit of a culture shock recently, when I applied for a job in the US.
There was this questionnaire you had to fill out, and the last question was, essentially, "are you black?" Which was a pretty big 'WTF?' moment for me. :p
A company would be in pretty big trouble if they asked questions like that, around here.
around where, exactly?
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The only racism I recall against Asians of late was when Jeremy Lin was on the Knicks - i was a big fan of linsanity, and I want him on the Nets - at least one sportscaster lost his job when he made a "witty" remark regarding Asians and, ah, protective gear. He was fired immediately. But I'm not Asian, so I don't see it much. I don't see much racism against native americans at all, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
...However, the discrimination still affects them and when we look at higher management positions, I've seen it personally in the business that I'm in, that ANY minority is sometimes overlooked in regards to others, and Asians particularly are overlooked many times in regards to others...
I have to call bunk on this statement. I can't speak for anyone but myself, so take this with a grain of salt. I am white, I bust my ass at work, skipping breaks, work OT as much as needed or I am allowed, and don't miss work unless some sort of surgery or hospitalization is required; I also frequently end up losing vacation time because of not taking more than one or two days off for special occassions. In my own work experience, I have seen more non-white people get promoted than white people. I have been passed over for promotions by non-white people who don't work half as hard as I do, nor are they able to do as much as I. It has been this way for me over the last 10 years. I know what my flaw is...I don't socialize with my coworkers or supervisors beyond what I need to do for professional purposes. I am more concerned with getting work done than being anyone's friend. The company I work for now, 75% of management and engineers are non-white. Again this is just from my own limited perspective and by no means indicitive of anyone else.
...However, the discrimination still affects them and when we look at higher management positions, I've seen it personally in the business that I'm in, that ANY minority is sometimes overlooked in regards to others, and Asians particularly are overlooked many times in regards to others...I have to call bunk on this statement. I can't speak for anyone but myself, so take this with a grain of salt. I am white, I bust my ass at work, skipping breaks, work OT as much as needed or I am allowed, and don't miss work unless some sort of surgery or hospitalization is required; I also frequently end up losing vacation time because of not taking more than one or two days off for special occassions. In my own work experience, I have seen more non-white people get promoted than white people. I have been passed over for promotions by non-white people who don't work half as hard as I do, nor are they able to do as much as I. It has been this way for me over the last 10 years. I know what my flaw is...I don't socialize with my coworkers or supervisors beyond what I need to do for professional purposes. I am more concerned with getting work done than being anyone's friend. The company I work for now, 75% of management and engineers are non-white. Again this is just from my own limited perspective and by no means indicitive of anyone else.
socialize more. In a corporate setting, a closed mouth doesn't get fed, and silence is conflated with contentment. If not corporate, see about taking the tests you need for another position, if you have that kind of job. Sometimes just advertising that you are taking a test can motivate /scare the right people.
The only racism I recall against Asians of late was when Jeremy Lin was on the Knicks - i was a big fan of linsanity, and I want him on the Nets - at least one sportscaster lost his job when he made a "witty" remark regarding Asians and, ah, protective gear. He was fired immediately. But I'm not Asian, so I don't see it much. I don't see much racism against native americans at all, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.Visible racism against Native Americans probably depends on where you live. If you live near many reservations, it's pretty obvious.
one of the few ethnic groups I've never lived around.
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...However, the discrimination still affects them and when we look at higher management positions, I've seen it personally in the business that I'm in, that ANY minority is sometimes overlooked in regards to others, and Asians particularly are overlooked many times in regards to others...I have to call bunk on this statement. I can't speak for anyone but myself, so take this with a grain of salt. I am white, I bust my ass at work, skipping breaks, work OT as much as needed or I am allowed, and don't miss work unless some sort of surgery or hospitalization is required; I also frequently end up losing vacation time because of not taking more than one or two days off for special occassions. In my own work experience, I have seen more non-white people get promoted than white people. I have been passed over for promotions by non-white people who don't work half as hard as I do, nor are they able to do as much as I. It has been this way for me over the last 10 years. I know what my flaw is...I don't socialize with my coworkers or supervisors beyond what I need to do for professional purposes. I am more concerned with getting work done than being anyone's friend. The company I work for now, 75% of management and engineers are non-white. Again this is just from my own limited perspective and by no means indicitive of anyone else.
Well it doesn't get them points to be proud of being a "progressive" company to promote a hard working white person, and you will not (cannot?) sue if you do not get what you have decided you deserve. But you are white so how dare you assume that it might be discrimination. after all too many people your color have it too easy.
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The only racism I recall against Asians of late was when Jeremy Lin was on the Knicks - i was a big fan of linsanity, and I want him on the Nets - at least one sportscaster lost his job when he made a "witty" remark regarding Asians and, ah, protective gear. He was fired immediately. But I'm not Asian, so I don't see it much. I don't see much racism against native americans at all, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.Visible racism against Native Americans probably depends on where you live. If you live near many reservations, it's pretty obvious.
of course it also depends on the reservation. of course they thmselves are very discriminatory, see what happens when i white guy goes onto a reservation and watch all hell break loose if he does anything wrong. Lots of badguys on both sides of those borders.
From the first post:The ones I specifically have in mind that seem to have the greatest discrimination are Asians and Native Americans.Well including the preceding sentence:
"HOWEVER...it's an unfair initiative as it STILL discriminates against the other minorities. The ones I specifically have in mind that seem to have the greatest discrimination are Asians and Native Americans. "I took it to mean the greatest out of the "other minorities" (minorities other than Hispanic or African-American). Your interpretation could be the correct one though, and what you say is actually what he meant.
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But that's just it, really... it is NOT about "who has it worse". As the laws are written, it's about "who belongs to the group where the MOST people have it bad". Try as you might, it is ALWAYS going to rankle when, say, a black kid with rich parents is given a place at a university before a white kid who's dirt poor - if it happens because blacks on average have it worse than whites. There is a huge disconnect here, and refusing to discuss it isn't going to make the very reasonable objections go away.
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I just love how "we shouldn't discriminate" is all about putting into place laws that benefit the minority in ways that makes them have advantages over more populous groups but never addresses the attitudes towards the discrimination.
I was in a union before where I needed an 85% on my tests to become a journeyman. Meanwhile the African-americans only needed a 65% because "we need to allow easier access so that we can be more integrated". All this did was cause a rift between caucasians and african-americans in our union. The caucasians were mad because it was unfair.
You can't cry for racial equality and then give out special advantages to certain races. Change the attitudes that cause the problem. Punish employers who truly are being racist and not the ones who are just weeding out people who are unqualified for a certain job.
I am caucasian and I feel like the government doesn't give a crap about me. If I was from India I could fairly easily get a deferred interest loan to start a business in America. As a caucasian I need collateral, education, a business plan and model to submit, and then I will still get turned down. If I was any number of minorities I may have actually been able to go to college with some fund or a scholarship or somesuch. As a caucasian I better hope mom and dad can help or I need to shoulder the full amount on my back.
Every time something white on black happens in the news we practically have a race riot, whether or not it was racially motivated. Yet when a white guy is robbed/killed/carjacked by a black it is just a crime even if the black admits to looking to target a white person.
The things that are supposed to help the minorities only really serve to widen the divide between the races. We need to change the attitudes.
I just love how "we shouldn't discriminate" is all about putting into place laws that benefit the minority in ways that makes them have advantages over more populous groups but never addresses the attitudes towards the discrimination.
I was in a union before where I needed an 85% on my tests to become a journeyman. Meanwhile the African-americans only needed a 65% because "we need to allow easier access so that we can be more integrated". All this did was cause a rift between caucasians and african-americans in our union. The caucasians were mad because it was unfair.
You can't cry for racial equality and then give out special advantages to certain races. Change the attitudes that cause the problem. Punish employers who truly are being racist and not the ones who are just weeding out people who are unqualified for a certain job.I am caucasian and I feel like the government doesn't give a crap about me. If I was from India I could fairly easily get a deferred interest loan to start a business in America. As a caucasian I need collateral, education, a business plan and model to submit, and then I will still get turned down. If I was any number of minorities I may have actually been able to go to college with some fund or a scholarship or somesuch. As a caucasian I better hope mom and dad can help or I need to shoulder the full amount on my back.
Every time something white on black happens in the news we practically have a race riot, whether or not it was racially motivated. Yet when a white guy is robbed/killed/carjacked by a black it is just a crime even if the black admits to looking to target a white person.The things that are supposed to help the minorities only really serve to widen the divide between the races. We need to change the attitudes.