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In one game that I am playing we are doing a darkest timeline version. All of our PC's from RotR, JR, SS, & CC are falling to the darkest versions of themselves all centered around one event that was altered.
My question involves the corrupting of one of my PC's. I have a high level Kitsune Enchantress that needs to make another PC believe that her husband is dead. The problem is that the PC is a mythic Heirophant with the ability to know when someone is lying to her so her +39 bluff isn't gong to help.
Does anyone have a suggestion of magical ways of making this happen? A magic item, spell, or combination thereof?

haruhiko88 |

Kill him, resurrect him or reincarnate if you are feeling dicey, keep a non detection spell on him and just so the husband isn't entirely mad pay for the dragon's blood he'll need to bathe in to restore his levels (it's cheaper than paying for spells). Then say "I did kill your husband." Now you aren't lying, you aren't telling the whole truth but you aren't lying.

Darksol the Painbringer |

Equipping a Ring of Mind Shield may help, if the ability is at all similar to spells such as Detect Thoughts, as the Mind Shield Ring makes you immune to such effects, meaning he is going to be forced to rely on the old fashioned way of Sense Motive.
Another idea is to not word it as "He's dead." There are ways to imply things without really saying it (and essentially, lie about it without really lying to them about it). Stuff along the lines of "He didn't make it," would suffice, because you aren't really saying he's dead, and you aren't really lying about him not making it, given this following example.
To keep it simple, start with Charm Person/Monster. Then use a Polymorph spell on said husband, use a Permanency spell to keep him in that shape forever (until you want to stop keeping with the ruse; in which case, I suggest some abilities that suppress magical auras), and keep said Polymorphed Husband as a "familiar," who sometimes is at odds with its master (i.e. the Polymorphed Husband being against the very one who turned him into a cat or other such creature).
From this, it's speculated that "He didn't make it" literally means he didn't make it ("it" being the saving throw needed to not get Charmed/Polymorphed). If they ask for details, follow up with "I would rather not talk about it, for it would absolutely disgust you to know what happened to him." And that's not lying at all, either.
Hope you have fun with this!

chaoseffect |

Clone.
You have an identical corpse.
Or you could just go Sculpt Corpse. Capture the husband, keep him imprisoned with spells that keep Divination away, and just leave the corpse. Either way, blackblood has the right idea; don't lie, just let the PC come to her own conclusions based on the evidence.

chaoseffect |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

Also just thought of it; Hidden Knowledge. Remove evidence of the lie from your mind, but leave yourself a note telling you what to say. You don't know it's a lie now.

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Well then.
That makes the clone a better idea.
Make the Clone, kill the husband right in front of her.

aboniks |

Clone would have been my suggestion as well.
Hidden knowledge is a good one too, perhaps better than clone, since you would know that the clone is not actually her husband, or that her husband is not actually dead, and any extended conversation on the topic would probably play like a certain scene from Rosencratnz and Guildenstern are Dead, ending with the target figuring out the truth anyway.
You could probably mitigate that by cloning him and then hiring someone else to behead him (or the clone) on the flip of a coin, and then deliver the resulting body to you. The uncertainty would probably get you off the hook if you had to give a straight answer to "is this my husband?".
But hidden knowledge is much more elegant (if potentially less fun to RP), I'd say.
Or combine the two, if she won't be convinced by anything other than seeing the/a body, and you need to appear uninvolved.
Out of curiosity, why not just actually kill him and be done with it?

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Would it be possible to cast geas (or something like it) on a person tell them to tell the wife they witnessed the death then use hidden knowledge or Sequester Thoughts to make him believe he actually did?
As far as just killing him. He believes he is holding the party back. He knows they would never just let him leave, so he recruited the enchantress to help fake his death.