Caster Levels for Magic Items in Pathfinder Society scenarios, please...

[Bigdaddyjug]

Ferious Thune wrote:

I think I agree with the general idea behind using the CL that's published with the item. I would say, though, that with regards to The Confirmation in particular, you'll likely be dealing with new players.

** spoiler omitted **

Yeah, I know. I still don't like a PoP-1 being CL 17 though, and I would love some clarification on variable caster level wondrous items.

[kinevon]

Bigdaddyjug wrote:

Ferious Thune wrote:

I think I agree with the general idea behind using the CL that's published with the item. I would say, though, that with regards to The Confirmation in particular, you'll likely be dealing with new players.

** spoiler omitted **

Yeah, I know. I still don't like a PoP-1 being CL 17 though, and I would love some clarification on variable caster level wondrous items.

I fully understand that, and the PoP 1 is just one of the more egregrious items. There are others that are about as ridiculous.

But, of course, there is the Identify spell out there to help with that.

[Majuba]

kinevon wrote:

But, of course, there is the Identify spell out there to help with that.

Exactly - and auto-identifying, or easy identifying, takes away from those who actually dedicate some effort to being good at this. I have a Magic domain cleric for instance, who gets identify as a domain spell and can proudly succeed at things like this.

A Clarification:

• The Pearl of Power FAQ is about adding a prerequisite to create a pearl of power, not taking anything away. A CL 17 in the book just means they are hard to make (and identify), but it is not a prerequisite to make it. The FAQ basically says "yeah, but you probably should also be able to cast the spells that it recalls."
  

[Bigdaddyjug]

Majuba wrote:

kinevon wrote:

But, of course, there is the Identify spell out there to help with that.

Exactly - and auto-identifying, or easy identifying, takes away from those who actually dedicate some effort to being good at this. I have a Magic domain cleric for instance, who gets identify as a domain spell and can proudly succeed at things like this.

A Clarification:

• The Pearl of Power FAQ is about adding a prerequisite to create a pearl of power, not taking anything away. A CL 17 in the book just means they are hard to make (and identify), but it is not a prerequisite to make it. The FAQ basically says "yeah, but you probably should also be able to cast the spells that it recalls."
  

Ok, so let's take a wizard for example. This wizard gets 3 1st-level spell slots plus his school slot. He's an admixture specialist, so he prepares a burning hands in his school slot, another burning hands and a grease in his regular 1st-level slots. For his last slot, he prepares an identify. This wizard is going through the scenario and comes across a magical item. He uses his identify to give himself a bonus on the spellcraft check and determines it is a 1st-level pearl of power. Later in the scenario, he uses the pearl of power to recall one of burning hands.

However, he could have just prepared a burning hands in place of that identify and been in the same situation. Shouldn't the magical item increase his power, not keep it equal to where it could have been without it?

[Duiker]

I've run 45 tables and played at as many. I've never asked for a spellcraft check to identify a magic item and never been asked either. I've also never seen a cursed item, so it's never been an issue. I can see the point of the check in principle, but in the context of running a game, it just seems to subtract from fun for no benefit to add a hoop to jump through for no in game effect other than occasionally not telling players what one of the items is and therefore not letting them use it.

[Majuba]

Bigdaddyjug wrote:

However, he could have just prepared a burning hands in place of that identify and been in the same situation. Shouldn't the magical item increase his power, not keep it equal to where it could have been without it?

The real benefit of finding the item is getting access to it earlier than 9 Fame. Being able to identify it to use during the scenario is gravy.

Also, he's trading an identify to be able to recall any of his spells, not just one he prepped before knowing anything. That's an additional small benefit. It also teaches new players (or old players) about how identifying items works.

Duiker: I understand where you are coming from, but there is fun to be had in experimenting with un-identified magic items.

Edit: I do have to say, it is rather humorous occasionally, for PoP specifically. Our 9th level Carrion Crown group took 3 or 4 days to successfully identify all three Pearls we found, and that's using identify.

[Jeff Merola]

Duiker wrote:

I've run 45 tables and played at as many. I've never asked for a spellcraft check to identify a magic item and never been asked either. I've also never seen a cursed item, so it's never been an issue. I can see the point of the check in principle, but in the context of running a game, it just seems to subtract from fun for no benefit to add a hoop to jump through for no in game effect other than occasionally not telling players what one of the items is and therefore not letting them use it.

This post made me realize that I don't think I've actually run a table for you yet.

Majuba wrote:

Also, he's trading an identify to be able to recall any of his spells, not just one he prepped before knowing anything. That's an additional small benefit. It also teaches new players (or old players) about how identifying items works.

Technically he's trading an identify to be able to recall any of the spells he's prepared (and cast) that day. Pearls don't let you recall spells you haven't already cast that day.

[Duiker]

Jeff! I doublechecked, you ran Sanos Abduction, Storming the Diamond Gate, and Tower of the Ironwood Watch for me. And I think now I'm going to have add all sorts of identify checks for Reign of Winter on Saturday.

I can see how the identify check could be a lot of fun, especially for roleplaying and especially in the context of home games and APs. It's just that in the context of PFS ... come on, you found a +1 sword and a wand of lesser restoration, let's just move on instead of getting bogged down with something that is disappearing in two hours anyway.

[Jeff Merola]

Duiker wrote:

Jeff! I doublechecked, you ran Sanos Abduction, Storming the Diamond Gate, and Tower of the Ironwood Watch for me. And I think now I'm going to have add all sorts of identify checks for Reign of Winter on Saturday.

I can see how the identify check could be a lot of fun, especially for roleplaying and especially in the context of home games and APs. It's just that in the context of PFS ... come on, you found a +1 sword and a wand of lesser restoration, let's just move on instead of getting bogged down with something that is disappearing in two hours anyway.

Ah, right, I remember those now. I definitely asked for checks in those, but the parties were overloaded with people who could make them so it didn't really matter.

And yeah, for the small stuff it doesn't really matter, since the DC is so low on things like +1 weapons, and potions can also be identified with perception checks.

[James Risner]

Duiker wrote:

in the context of PFS ... come on, you found a +1 sword and a wand of lesser restoration, let's just move on instead of getting bogged down with something that is disappearing in two hours anyway.

PFS is supposed to follow the rules, and skipping these checks isn't following the rules.

That is basically a house rule.

[Cronge]

Seth Gipson wrote:

Cronge wrote:

I would like to see in future Pathfinder Society scenarios caster levels listed per magic item in stat blocks and the like.

There have been too many times looking up caster levels in multiple books/resources when a party member uses detect magic to identify. It has been a bit of a time sink in smoothness of play.

Direct quote from the PFS Facebook page, "Yeah, who knew that a 1st level pearl of power is caster level 17, requiring a DC 32 spellcraft check?"

Is this type of addition/change a possibility in future scenarios?

Not to sound like a jerk, but is this not something you could look up before you run the scenario? Im probably more lax on this rule than I should be, but if you are going to look up the DC for every item someone tries to identify (and Im not saying you shouldnt), then wouldnt it be reasonable to just make that part of the scenrio preop you do before you show up to GM it? You could just make a note in the margin of the page about what the DC or CL is for the individual items or something.

Edit: What I mean is, instead of asking them to change something because looking it up mid-session is inconvenient to you, you cuold just stop looking it up mid-session. :P

You are absolutely correct that I could look up this information during my preparation of scenarios/modules and make annotations. I could also do the same for the spell DCs of enemy casters but those are already provided.