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QTEs are weak design because most of them are simple one-button prompts. They're as much gameplay as clicking 'START' to start the game. If a QTE gave you four options with different effects, they'd qualify more as gameplay, but they never do. So if a QTE falls mid cut-scene it's about as useful as a prompt coming up saying 'CONTINUE CUT-SCENE Y/N?'.
This is made worse when QTEs use different controls to the rest of the game. IIRC, TOMB RAIDER at least let you use the actual normal controls during cut scenes, which was a bit better.
Even worse are when QTEs only happen once in a game. SPACE MARINE is the worst example of this: there are no QTEs at all in the whole game until the final boss fight, where you have to kill it with QTEs using buttons and controls not normally used for combat in the game (plus it's a rip-off of the Gandalf/Balrog fight, but that's another issue).
There's also the issue of laziness: creating a pre-determined cut scene where the player has to press one button is more straightforward than programming a long, multi-result conversation option scene, or a combat scene where the game designer has a specific result in mind regardless of what the player does.
I think it's possible to do good QTEs - DEUS EX: HR's conversation cut scenes where you can choose different dialogue options with radically different results on how the rest of the cut scene playes out is a good example of the sort of thing they should do more often - but overall they should be treated with scepticism.
I find QTE's annoying. When I'm annoyed, it lowers my enjoyment of a game. Simple enough for you?No, I get that, Irontruth. I'm just struck by how odd it is that this is the one area of game design where certain gamers tend to be in favor of less interactivity. In almost all other aspects of game design, gamers tend to love high levels of interactivity. But there's something about the idea of QTEs that makes gamers wish they could interact less with the game.You don't understand that sometimes people have different preferences from you?No QTE = Good. I will probably nuy it after all.I really don't understand this. Literally the only practical effect that removing QTEs had on the game was making cutscenes that were previously interactive non-interactive.
That's a good thing?
That's very helpful, Irontruth.
I was looking for an explanation that is just a little deeper than that, though. Perhaps some reasons for why QTEs annoy you? Or what aspects of certain QTEs were annoying? Others in this thread were able to explain their issues with QTEs just fine.
Because I don't like Simon Says games. QTE's aren't innovative or interesting as a form of gameplay. They're an extremely simplistic style of game play that's been around forever, they're just being put in a "new" place. I find their placement to be distracting.
They don't make me feel like I'm involved in what's going on, because I'm not really making the decision. I either push the button or I don't. If success isn't required, they often have minimal impact on the outcome of the game.
They're reliant on rote memorization. I don't find that particularly captivating.
They stop you from watching what is actually going on and instead waiting for the visual cue, usually a graphic of the button you're supposed to push. I find the normal graphics of the games to be more interesting than the icon of the buttons, so I'd rather look at those.
A few games beat a few of these problems, but that makes them highly context sensitive, which means I often don't know they're coming and I haven't gotten to encounter this situation before. If I miss the QTE or get it wrong I now have to go back and reload the game so I can engage it properly. I find this annoying too.
With every generation of games where technology improves things, what used to be a QTE is now just turned into actual gameplay using the games "physics" (using that term to just include how the game presents interaction in general). In the 80's, there were driving games with QTE's for certain kinds of stunts/maneuvers. Now driving games are good enough that they can just be modeled in the the regular process of play.
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It sounds like your complaint, then, isn't necessarily with the idea of QTEs (which really just boil down to interactive cinematic sequences) but rather with the poor implementation of QTEs we see in many titles. Are there any examples of games you've played that contained QTE-like sequences that you enjoyed?
That sounds reasonable, and I could agree with that, but no I don't recall any game with a good QTE. If you know one, ask me, that might change my mind.
That sounds reasonable, and I could agree with that, but no I don't recall any game with a good QTE. If you know one, ask me, that might change my mind.
It sounds like your complaint, then, isn't necessarily with the idea of QTEs (which really just boil down to interactive cinematic sequences) but rather with the poor implementation of QTEs we see in many titles. Are there any examples of games you've played that contained QTE-like sequences that you enjoyed?
I personally thought some of the Assassin's Creed series' (namely the Ezio trilogy) QTE sequences were solid.
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I have only played the first Assassin's Creed II game, and not the others yet. I don't remember QTE's in the first one. If there were some, then they were good enough that I forgot them, or else they come later in the series.
I have definitely to try the second game, but first, I am going to advance more in skyrim.
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THIEF PARTIAL REVIEW
First, I’m a huge fan of the Thief series. I’ve played Thief: The Dark Project, essentially replayed it when I went out and purchased Thief Gold, Thief: The Metal Age, and Thief: Deadly Shadows. I’ve played them multiple times. Thief is probably my favorite video game franchise. So it has been with much anticipation and some trepidation that I’ve been anxiously awaiting the Thief “reboot” (more on that in a bit).
Second, I’m a fan of Dishonored. Lacking a viable Thief game on either of my consoles, I gave Dishonored a try and was not disappointed. Dishonored is a great game and its setting is engrossing in a manner similar to the Thief universe. I’ve purchased the DLC for Dishonored and in the final days leading up to the release of the new Thief game, I was playing Dishonored so it was fresh in my mind.
I haven’t finished the game yet but have played several story missions and side quests. I’ve certainly played enough to feel I can weigh in on how Thief is as a game.
On Internet Buzz & Reviews
I don’t put much stock in video game reviews, but one of the few game sites I frequent is GameSpot. I don’t need to agree with a reviewer to enjoy a game, but after playing Thief for 8+ hours and watching my sons play the Prologue, Chapter 1, and some challenge maps (don’t worry, they’re prohibited from playing certain missions/levels), I’m convinced that either they’d made up their mind that Thief wouldn’t stack up against Dishonored or they don’t really like stealth games.
The Thief vs. Dishonored Debate
Dishonored is a game about an assassin/bodyguard with mystical powers. Yes, you can play Dishonored as a stealth game but I played Dishonored to get my Thief fix and while I loved the game, it didn’t hit that mark. Corvo possesses a lethal skill set. Even while playing in stealth mode, the dual-wield of blade and ranged weapon clearly puts him in different mindset than Garrett, the thief who steals as much for the challenge as the prize. Yes, stealth is an option in Dishonored but even if spotted, Corvo is more than equipped to deal with most threats in the game: sword, gun, crossbow, summoning rats, stopping time, etc.
The GameSpot review complained about the lack of a jump button in Thief and the interaction of Garrett in the environment. Unless the reviewers were trying to climb or vault every surface in the game, they were being bull-headed about navigating Garrett’s world. My kids (13 & 8) picked it up within seconds (they were also completely engrossed in the world of Thief). Corvo has a jump button but honestly, once Corvo has access to Blink that became the primary method of navigating difficult terrain for me. There were plenty of things Corvo can’t jump over or onto.
I also find the Dishonored art style, while interesting, a bit cartoony for my tastes. I much prefer Thief’s aesthetic.
Finally, Corvo is yet another voiceless first-person protagonist. Aside from your in-game decisions which determine the game’s outcome (a plus), the biggest window we have into Corvo’s personality is the Outsider – a Loki-like trickster at best or a demonic agent of evil at worst. Garrett, in every game in the series, is a character with a voice. Yes, you can play him as you like, but you have a sense of who Garrett is within the story and his world.
Gameplay
I find the gameplay hits all of the Thief marks for me and I absolutely love the additions of Garrett’s “presence” in the game. Hands placed on a doorframe while he peeks around a corner, being able to look down while climbing a rope and seeing Garrett’s body and legs, legs leading the way when I vault a balcony, being able to lean over a railing to peer down at a street – all fantastic additions to the game and increase my immersion.
The “city hub” element has been drastically improved over Thief: Deadly Shadows. The addition of the ability to interact with recurring characters, side quests, and Arkham City-style exploration are welcome complimentary elements to the excellent story-based missions.
I’m impressed that so many settings can be turned off to reflect the style of play you wish to enjoy. Focus is completely optional. I’ve turned it off as has my eldest, but for my younger son, Focus makes it accessible for him in much the same way Detective Vision did in the Batman Arkham games.
I worried that "the claw" would become the Garrett-Grapnel. It's not. It's used to gain a handhold for Garrett to ascend to ledges that he wouldn't be able to reach otherwise. When it's used beyond that, it's done as part of the climbing sequences that incorporate a third-person view (ala Uncharted). The climbing is only accessible in certain sequences but it's a welcome addition and superior to T:DS's climbing gloves.
On the “Reboot”
IMO based on what I’ve played thus far, Square Enix is calling this a reboot to welcome new gamers to the franchise. When it’s been 10 years since the last installment, I can appreciate the fear that if the lore is obscure or a learning curve is perceived as too high, new players might stay away.
While nothing is specifically called out to link to the previous trilogy, you’d have to blind, obtuse, or not well-versed in the original games to pick up on it. My guess is that the GameSpot reviewers are aware of Thief’s role in inspiring later stealth games, but are likely not fans that played the prior games significantly.
Within the prologue and first three story missions, the following are present:
1. Erin, Garrett’s former apprentice, is by all appearances the young girl Garrett took as an apprentice at the end of Deadly Shadows.
2. A ring shaped as a Mechanist’s gear symbol
3. A newspaper that speaks to the banning of the “Old Gods”. I took this to mean the Pagans, but we’ll see.
4. An ancient Keeper library (even if it’s not specifically called out as such).
5. Basso refers to never getting married again. (Hearkens back to Basso’s mission for Garrett in Thief 2)
Finally, Garrett’s evolution continues in this installment. I was concerned about Garrett relying solely on the blackjack – no sword or dagger in his arsenal. But it fits the story and his interaction with Erin. When looking at the series as a whole, Garrett starts as a thief relying on the weapons the Keepers taught him to use, but his desire to avoid unnecessary killing (and underscoring his status as Master Thief) leads him to abandon the sword for the dagger, and ultimately the dagger as well – to reinforce his attempt to teach Erin.
Garrett is still the antihero or, at best, the reluctant hero. I loved the voice of the actor who originally played Garrett and was sorry to hear he wasn’t returning. I feel that the current actor does a good job, however. He does a good job of relaying Garrett’s affection for, and frustration with, Erin. It’s sadly ironic that the star pupil who left the master who took him in has suffered the same experience with his own apprentice…
Yeah, I know, this is a long-winded partial review but I think a lot of the Internet buzz is not accurately depicting the game.
If you’re more of a fan of action-focused stealth, Dishonored is a great game. I love that game for what it is, but it isn’t Thief. If you’re a fan of the Thief series, give the game a chance. Garrett is back, and after a ten year wait, I’m thrilled. I’m not saying it’s a perfect game, but it’s a damn good one.