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Farage is far from that. Farage doesn't come across as a bumbler either - I think that is your projection on to him - but he is selling a vision of the UK that is appealing to anyone who wants to go back to the 1950s. Farage's image is as a man of the people - a bit of a joke for anyone vaguely aware of his background as a public schoolboy and former city broker, and with a fat expense account at Europe's expense as an MEP, but there it is - but I don't see him bumbling as being attractive to anyone. The most bumblish leader we have is Ed Miliband and he is fairly despised by most people, including in his own party.
I will see you Ed Milliband, and raise you a Boris Johnson.
Okay, not a minister, but still a politician.
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Boris is an interesting case, and he did come to mind while writing above. (Ed's not a minister either, of course, at least at the moment.) I don't think people like bumbling per se, I think they react (to some extent) negatively to what they perceive inauthenticity. When politicians seem sincere then they seem to strike more of a chord (I dunno, that's my theory) and maybe a bit of bumbling gives them authenticity. Of course, it's total b&&+#+@s - Farage is about as authentic as a three pound note, and Boris is really just another scheming politician and, frankly, probably pretty unlikeable close to (he certainly had no problem lying about his affairs to Michael Howard and got kicked out of the Tory opposition front bench when it was revealed, and obviously treats his wife interestingly). I'm not a polster or a spin doctor so my analysis on this is probably shakey, but as far as I can see a lot of this authenticity is just another form of spin and artifice.
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Farage's excuse for every mad UKIP employee is bumbling: "Well, I can't be expected to know what's going on with all of these people running around. I know I'm in charge but really, there's a lot to do. Anyway, was it my round..."
I don't think Farage is a bumbler - he's whipped the mess of UKIP into some kind of shape - I think he pretends to be one for the same reasons that Boris does.
The British like an affable bumbler.
Incidentally, my perception may be at variance with your own but to belittle my perception as 'projection' seems unfair.
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As Aubrey said, unless I've completely misread things, affable bumbler with charisma, maybe - voters also like a politician who hasn't been (or doesn't appear to have been) focus-grouped into a vague grey paste. Miliband fails on both counts, since he is basically a vast nerd without the sparkly aura that enchants the media/public at large, and furthermore, a vast nerd who's not allowed to play to his geeky strengths. Also, the Labout Party still has a Tony Blair hangover, as the Tory Party had a Thatcher hangover until very recently - any new leader who comes up has to deal with their legacies (positive or negative) dangling over them.
Farage = Oswald Mosley.
UKIP = BUF
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Incidentally, my perception may be at variance with your own but to belittle my perception as 'projection' seems unfair.
It wasn't intended to belittle - more that you may have allowed your dislike to bleed into a perception of "bumbling" (i.e. incompetence). It could just be we mean something slightly different by the word.
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As Aubrey said, unless I've completely misread things, affable bumbler with charisma, maybe - voters also like a politician who hasn't been (or doesn't appear to have been) focus-grouped into a vague grey paste. Miliband fails on both counts, since he is basically a vast nerd without the sparkly aura that enchants the media/public at large, and furthermore, a vast nerd who's not allowed to play to his geeky strengths. Also, the Labout Party still has a Tony Blair hangover, as the Tory Party had a Thatcher hangover until very recently - any new leader who comes up has to deal with their legacies (positive or negative) dangling over them.
Milliband also stabbed his brother in the back - it isn't uppermost in people's minds but it was a big thing when he became leader, giving him the aura that "the wrong one" won.
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Farage = Oswald Mosley.
UKIP = BUF
That's probably a bit strong. That said, though they strenuously deny it, it is a party for racists. Farage's unguarded comments about Romanians kinda demonstrates that. The fall of the British National Party (BNP) is thought to be largely down to its votes being cannibalised by UKIP.
It's odd, really. I'm not a big fan of the EU but I recognise virtually nothing of my thoughts on the subject in UKIP. What those Tory MPs think they are doing throwing in their lot with such a demented, incoherent rabble is a mystery to me. We'd surely be better off in the EU than governed by UKIP.
I believe I'm going to have the 'pleasure' of voting for the constituency Farage is standing for in the next election. I feel compelled to turn out and vote against him, even if it means voting Tory (shudder). Boris is standing for election as well, of course. Do you think he'll steal UKIP votes back for the Tories?
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He might if he's leader, as he seems to have a broad appeal that allows him, as a fairly right-wing Tory, to be mayor in a left-leaning city (like most cities). But he isn't, nor is he setting policy. And I'd look a somewhat askance at Boris as leader of the Conservatives. He self-destructed before, albeit he seems to have behaved himself as mayor.
Who are the alternatives, though?
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Osborne, though he doesn't play so well in the country. Theresa May, though ditto. Boris has a good brand and would be a strong contender, but it doesn't necessarily follow he will get it. Who expected Major to become Conservative leader? No one much expected Thatcher at the time. Who the hell expected Milliband (well, that one anyway) - a different party, but still quite a surprise result? So simply assuming it'll be Boris is probably getting a bnit too far ahead of the game. And Cameron might actually win (though I doubt it'll be outright if it happens).
Oh, I'm not assuming he will succeed, more looking for assurances it's unlikely. But him as mayor of London was unlikely too.
Farage = Oswald Mosley.
UKIP = BUF
That's probably a bit strong. That said, though they strenuously deny it, it is a party for racists. Farage's unguarded comments about Romanians kinda demonstrates that. The fall of the British National Party (BNP) is thought to be largely down to its votes being cannibalised by UKIP.
It's odd, really. I'm not a big fan of the EU but I recognise virtually nothing of my thoughts on the subject in UKIP. What those Tory MPs think they are doing throwing in their lot with such a demented, incoherent rabble is a mystery to me. We'd surely be better off in the EU than governed by UKIP.
But UKIP is not a fascist party. The BUF was (obviously - Mosley was also an enthusiastic Pan-European, IIRC, in a 'white, Christian bulwark against Asiatic Bolshevism' type of way); the BNP is, despite its somewhat unconvincing denails of such. UKIP is a home-from-home for the sort of Tory who don't feel that their party wants or understands them any more. I think the BNP's fall also had a lot to do with its financial problems, far-right infighting with the EDL and dissaffection amongst its activist base.
The Ed/David squabble was also a continuation (I think) of the Brownite vs. Blairite conflict. The Blairites may have felt that it was their turn after the Brown debacle, which is one of the reasons why so many people resent Ed, who was also the Unions and soft left's favoured candidate at the time of the leadership contest (I voted for him, being affiliated through my TU; not that sorry, seeing as I would have liked the alternative even less)
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But UKIP is not a fascist party. The BUF was (obviously - Mosley was also an enthusiastic Pan-European, IIRC, in a 'white, Christian bulwark against Asiatic Bolshevism' type of way); the BNP is, despite its somewhat unconvincing denails of such. UKIP is a home-from-home for the sort of Tory who don't feel that their party wants or understands them any more. I think the BNP's fall also had a lot to do with its financial problems, far-right infighting with the EDL and dissaffection amongst its activist base.
I have to question the home-from-home thing for Tories. It is certainly true that a lot of UKIP's support are disgruntles Tories (despite Farage's comments about parking his tnks on Labour's lawn, which is more wishful thinking). But their agenda is pretty un-Tory-ish in that it's largely an abandonment of free markets and so on. UKIP is more a party for elderly idiots, of which there unfortunately seem to be a lot. As a Tory, I just don't understand the appeal.
The Ed/David squabble was also a continuation (I think) of the Brownite vs. Blairite conflict. The Blairites may have felt that it was their turn after the Brown debacle, which is one of the reasons why so many people resent Ed, who was also the Unions and soft left's favoured candidate at the time of the leadership contest (I voted for him, being affiliated through my TU; not that sorry, seeing as I would have liked the alternative even less)
Yeah, I'm sure that's right. But it's probably not how it plays with most people with no party or union affiliation, who saw a guy stab his brother in the back by prostrating himself in front of the unions. And while it is probably wrong to play fantasy politics, David M was a much better prospect for Labour as the much more televisual brother (bananas notwitstanding).
Recruited (well, he hasn't paid his first dues yet, but I think it's safe to say he's in) a new comrade who is way more into internet trolling then I am.
Really? =)
I guess Facebook took down the picture of George II and Elizabeth II again.
:(
Anyway, I don't know about his vocabulary, but he certainly knows more about photoshop than I do.
Hee hee!
Well, I can't vouch for this, but according to my new comrade, there has been an article written about the Scottish Republican Army in some Britishiznoid newspaper. In addition, apparently he has been getting a lot of hate mail and threats from supporters of the BNP as well as there now being not one, but two Facebook pages devoted to exposing supporters of the SRA:
Exposed! Scottish Republican Army
Scottish Republican ARMY Supporters
I hope none of those pretty Britishiznoid girls are harrassed, but, still, hee hee!
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The Britishiznoid newspaper is actually that proud , Scottish newspaper The Herald. Need to check your sources, Comrade (I only had to google it).
Hee hee!
[Missread post leads to edit and, then, a link to Paizo threads from days gone by]
Any more outcry on this or are people mostly happy?
Well, I'm not sure how sore he is; he isn't of Britishiznoid, Scottish, or even European descent (that I am aware of). He explained that it was intended to troll some people in some other chat room he hangs out in. For example, all the anti-Turkish stuff was to troll an, apparently, large number of Turanists that he runs into.
And, no, I didn't know Turanism was a thing. I thought it was a country in Hyperborea.
There was a minor fuss over some (so far as I can see) baseless claims of vote rigging, with a few rather unconvincing videos produced as evidence, but the whole thing's petered out. There will still be a bunch of conspiracy theories sloshing around, inevitably.
Thought initially that the SRA might be some sort of SNLA revival. Glad it isn't.
Aubrey - you mentioned something about UKIP's anti-free market position a few posts back. I've never heard them described as such before - were you referring to their anti-immigration stance or something else?
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@Limey
Yes, mainly. The stuff they don't like about the EU - free movement of people, free movement of goods across the EU - are the "good" bits which actually do represent free markets as enshrined in the EU (which isn't simply a socialist plot to cripple the UK). They instead represent a nationalistic/isolationist streak which is both fearful of the outside world and economically stupid (for example, I don't know who those elderly people voting for them think is going to man the old peoples' homes if they chuck out the immigrants). But the policy position of UKIP on a lot of things is pretty incoherent, so I'm not entirely sure what their position is on anything else much - it changes rapidly - although it is mainly a wish list given the reported £120bn hole in their spending plans. They have to do some pretty impressive gymnastics to appeal to disaffected Tories while parking their tanks on Labour's lawn.
That said, we haven't really had much free marketry from the Tories for a long time - "detoxifying the brand" made sure of that.