UMD is one of the more powerfull skills so it is defenetly worth it.
I dont know any rules that would let a wizard activate what sounds like plot specifk stuff.
But if you are a wizard get UMD on your headband and it will be maxed out automatically.
If you by mage meen any arcane caster then the wizard advice is less impressive but the rest is still true.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A mage can use UMD for divine magic items and some rare items that need UMD for activation.
Is its worth the skill points? In general i would say no but it can be cool for some RP reasons or special character ideas.
Is this a rules question or advice question?
Rules: Many, but not all, devices are based on if spell is on your list or alike (spell trigger / spell completion). If the spell is NOT on the wizard list, then you need to resort to UMD to activate it. Similarly, there are a number of items that only function for classes / alignments. UMD could be used to bypass such things. Eg. Robes of the Archmagi are aligned and your could emulate alignment on them to get around the negative levels of a mis-aligned one if your GM throws it in.
Advice: I can take it or leave it on a wizard, and to me it's mostly up to you and the fluff of the char. I would 100% recommend UMD to a sorc because it's a class skill AND is Char based so your far more likely to get better in it quicker. Less so with a Wizard. It feels more right on a sorc for some reason to me. Dunno why. That said, being able to cast a cleric scroll CAN be important if your planning on Ressing your dead cleric friend. Being able to keep solidering on rather than running back to town for a res can be worthwhile.
|
It's not uncommon for newbies to misunderstand how UMD works.
It's intended for a non-magic user to activate an item they'd not normally be able to. For example, to use a wand, you'd normally need the spell on that wand to be in your class' spells list. If it's not, you can make a UMD check and if you pass a certain DC, you'll still be able to use it like a caster could.
Casters can still take it if, for example, a wizard wanted to cast a druid spell that they'd normally not have access to.
In terms of what you're talking about, a caster can "automatically" use devices (like a wand) if they meet the rules (eg. the spell on the wand is a wizard spell).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Pound for pound the best skill out there in my opinion. I have seen ninja and rogues become clerics simply by a high UMD and able to activate wands and scrolls, etc.
I do what was mentioned above for my wizards and put it into a headband so it is always maxed out. If possible, I will take Dangerously Curious trait for any class that does not have it as a class skill. Always at least sink a point into it to be able to make the try if needed.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Personally, I'd dump 1 point into it to unlock it and on later levels get it to where I can take 10 on a DC 20 check.
As far as I understand the rules, you can never take 10 on the UMD skill.
|
Personally, I'd dump 1 point into it to unlock it and on later levels get it to where I can take 10 on a DC 20 check.As far as I understand the rules, you can never take 10 on the UMD skill.
That is true. From the end of the skill:
Action: None. The Use Magic Device check is made as part of the action (if any) required to activate the magic item.
Try Again: Yes, but if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail, then you can't try to activate that item again for 24 hours.
Special: You cannot take 10 with this skill. You can't aid another on Use Magic Device checks. Only the user of the item may attempt such a check.
And you cannot take a 20 due to this ruling:
Since taking 20 assumes that your character will fail many times before succeeding, your character would automatically incur any penalties for failure before he or she could complete the task (hence why it is generally not allowed with skills that carry such penalties).
Since you take any failures, taking 20 on UMD automatically assumes that you roll a 1, and thus cannot try again for 24 hours.
|
Is this a rules question or advice question?
Rules: Many, but not all, devices are based on if spell is on your list or alike (spell trigger / spell completion). If the spell is NOT on the wizard list, then you need to resort to UMD to activate it. Similarly, there are a number of items that only function for classes / alignments. UMD could be used to bypass such things. Eg. Robes of the Archmagi are aligned and your could emulate alignment on them to get around the negative levels of a mis-aligned one if your GM throws it in.
Advice: I can take it or leave it on a wizard, and to me it's mostly up to you and the fluff of the char. I would 100% recommend UMD to a sorc because it's a class skill AND is Char based so your far more likely to get better in it quicker. Less so with a Wizard. It feels more right on a sorc for some reason to me. Dunno why. That said, being able to cast a cleric scroll CAN be important if your planning on Ressing your dead cleric friend. Being able to keep solidering on rather than running back to town for a res can be worthwhile.
Hmm
You make a Use Magic Device check each time you activate a device such as a wand. If you are using the check to emulate an alignment or some other quality in an ongoing manner, you need to make the relevant Use Magic Device check once per hour.....
Emulate an Alignment: Some magic items have positive or negative effects based on the user's alignment. Use Magic Device lets you use these items as if you were of an alignment of your choice. You can emulate only one alignment at a time.
To most wearers, the robe offers no powers or has no effects unless the wearer's alignment doesn't match that of the robe (see below)......
As mentioned above, all robes of the archmagi are attuned to a specific alignment. If a white robe is donned by an evil character, she immediately gains three permanent negative levels. The same is true with respect to a black robe donned by a good character. An evil or good character who puts on a gray robe, or a neutral character who dons either a white or black robe, gains two permanent negative levels. While these negative levels remain as long as the garment is worn and cannot be overcome in any way (including restoration spells), they are immediately removed if the robe is removed.
The "Emulate an Alignment" check allow you to use the robe benefits for 1 hour has if you where of the appropriate alignment, but you will still suffer from the negative levels.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Such an archmage can probably snap his fingers twice and have an appropriate key in his hand.
I would agree with Diego in that you could activate the effects of the robe but you would still probably suffer the effects of your actual alignment. However, you may want to take that one up with your DM.
Also, UMD can be used by a non-Half-Elf to emulate a race and activate a wand of Paragon Surge for a wizard or sorcerer. If you make the emulate a class check as well, then any type of non-Half-Elf could use it. That could be fun...
|
|
I would agree with Diego in that you could activate the effects of the robe but you would still probably suffer the effects of your actual alignment. However, you may want to take that one up with your DM.
Also, UMD can be used by a non-Half-Elf to emulate a race and activate a wand of Paragon Surge for a wizard or sorcerer. If you make the emulate a class check as well, then any type of non-Half-Elf could use it. That could be fun...
You can use the wand, but the spell will do nothing for you. UMD don't change the range or target of a spell a Paragon surge say: "Range personal (half-elf only)".
A wizard of sorcerer can use a wand of paragon surge without the need for a UMD even if they aren't half elfs. Being half elfs isn't a requirement to use the spell, it is a requirement to benefit from it.
You would be in the same situation of a intelligent construct with the ability to cast cure light wound. It do nothing for you, but you can still cast it.
- * -
Looking to your avatar (he is the iconic summoner) I think that if he was able to learn paragon surge, he could cast it on his eidolon and it will work, as the share spell ability say: "Share Spells (Ex): The summoner may cast a spell with a target of “you” on his eidolon (as a spell with a range of touch) instead of on himself. A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon's type (outsider). Spells cast in this way must come from the summoner spell list. This ability does not allow the eidolon to share abilities that are not spells, even if they function like spells."
Or it would work for a wizard or witch familiar. both classes have the spell on their spell list.
Weird.
I would agree with Diego in that you could activate the effects of the robe but you would still probably suffer the effects of your actual alignment. However, you may want to take that one up with your DM.
Also, UMD can be used by a non-Half-Elf to emulate a race and activate a wand of Paragon Surge for a wizard or sorcerer. If you make the emulate a class check as well, then any type of non-Half-Elf could use it. That could be fun...
You can use the wand, but the spell will do nothing for you. UMD don't change the range or target of a spell a Paragon surge say: "Range personal (half-elf only)".
A wizard of sorcerer can use a wand of paragon surge without the need for a UMD even if they aren't half elfs. Being half elfs isn't a requirement to use the spell, it is a requirement to benefit from it.
You would be in the same situation of a intelligent construct with the ability to cast cure light wound. It do nothing for you, but you can still cast it.
Good point as the Half-Elf only is under the range, ie. the target. Thanks for the insight!
|
Personally, I'd dump 1 point into it to unlock it and on later levels get it to where I can take 10 on a DC 20 check.As far as I understand the rules, you can never take 10 on the UMD skill.
That is true. From the end of the skill:
Action: None. The Use Magic Device check is made as part of the action (if any) required to activate the magic item.
Try Again: Yes, but if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail, then you can't try to activate that item again for 24 hours.
Special: You cannot take 10 with this skill. You can't aid another on Use Magic Device checks. Only the user of the item may attempt such a check.
And you cannot take a 20 due to this ruling:
Since taking 20 assumes that your character will fail many times before succeeding, your character would automatically incur any penalties for failure before he or she could complete the task (hence why it is generally not allowed with skills that carry such penalties).Since you take any failures, taking 20 on UMD automatically assumes that you roll a 1, and thus cannot try again for 24 hours.
Remember that the "Roll a 1, unable to use the device for 24 hours" rule only applies if a 1 fails.
If your UMD is +19, you will never fail an activate a wand UMD check, so you will never get locked out of using the wand.
Pound for pound the best skill out there in my opinion. I have seen ninja and rogues become clerics simply by a high UMD and able to activate wands and scrolls, etc.
Second best after perception :P
I do what was mentioned above for my wizards and put it into a headband so it is always maxed out. If possible, I will take Dangerously Curious trait for any class that does not have it as a class skill. Always at least sink a point into it to be able to make the try if needed.
For wizards, there's a better trait, pragmatic activator . Dangerously Curious (or Underlying Principles, which does the same) gives you +4 (+1 trait plus class skill). Swaping CHA for INT might be as much as +10 if you dumped Charisma to 7 and have INT 26.
And of course it lets you use a Wand of CLW. My character is just level 5, but with a +10 bonus (5 + 4 (dangerously curious) + 1), his +12 to use his wand of CLW makes it work most of the time. And a a rare wasted charge isn't that bad. Granted it is best of the Cleric can use it, but in a few more levels that will mostly go away
You don't waste charges on a miss.
Use a Wand, Staff, or Other Spell Trigger Item: Normally, to use a wand, you must have the wand's spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. Failing the roll does not expend a charge. from the PRD
|
|
You only lose the ability to use that specific wand for 24 hours on a 1, and that is only if it would fail to activate. If you are using a known wand, and your UMD is +19, even a 1 works, so you never lose the ability to activate it as long as it has charges left...
Note: if the two traits are in different groups (Magic and Faith, for example), and they don't give their bonuses as trait bonuses, they will stack.
There is one of the Int for a Cha skioll trait that is in a different type than Dangerously Curious, so you get the Int mod instead of the Cha mod, the +3 for a class skill, and the +1 trait bonus, plus the ranks from skill points. It can add up quick.
So, +5 Int, +3 class skill, +1 trait bonus, +X ranks. X = 5 for your PC, so:
+14, not counting anything like an Ioun stone that can give a competence bonus to the skill.
Would put you in striking range of that +19...
|
|
Emulate an Alignment: Some magic items have positive or negative effects based on the user's alignment. Use Magic Device lets you use these items as if you were of an alignment of your choice. You can emulate only one alignment at a time.The "Emulate an Alignment" check allow you to use the robe benefits for 1 hour has if you where of the appropriate alignment, but you will still suffer from the negative levels.
Very simple: you don't change your nature.
It is like the wand of Paragon surge. You can fool it into "thinking" that you are a member of a race for the activation, but the targeting and effects are still linked to what you are.The robe has a set of powers:
"These powers are as follows.
• +5 armor bonus to AC.
• Spell resistance 18.
• +4 resistance bonus on all saving throws.
• +2 enhancement bonus on caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance."
You fool the robe into thinking you have the right alignment and those powers activate.
Then there is a drawback that isn't a power and explicitly say it can't be overcome in any way:
"If a white robe is donned by an evil character, she immediately gains three permanent negative levels. The same is true with respect to a black robe donned by a good character. An evil or good character who puts on a gray robe, or a neutral character who dons either a white or black robe, gains two permanent negative levels. While these negative levels remain as long as the garment is worn and cannot be overcome in any way (including restoration spells), they are immediately removed if the robe is removed."