The Committee for Accreditation of Paladinhood

[MrSin]

Sammy T wrote:

DoubleplusLawfulGood

Quadroupledoglawfulgoodplusinfinity.

Did I win?

[Kryzbyn]

...times infinity.

I've had tons of fun playing a Paladin. I love the moments in game where you stand your ground becasue it's right, as opposed to doing anything else becasue it's easier or more tacticly sound.
Being able to do so and still triumph is why I like to play them. You're given all the tools you need to not back down from evil. Use them.

[The Fox]

Finlanderboy wrote:

I would really love to see a paladin that does not try to kill things in a black/white view.

My oni-spawn inquisitor of Sarenrae will never kill a living creature so they have the option of redemption. This includes devils and demons since he sees them as no different them himself before he "saw the light".

A non-lethal smiting would be awesome.

My human paladin uses a merciful weapon. My half-orc paladin has the redeemer archetype from the Advanced Race Guide, which allows for non-lethal smiting of monstrous humanoids at no penalty.

[trollbill]

MrSin wrote:

trollbill wrote:

A player should not have his play opportunities reduced simply because of his choice of character.

Playing a paladin is tough. They are bound by a higher authority.

Paladins are in a weird place. Sometimes people's ideas of how they should be are placed over whether they are playable or not. You also get ideals like how paladins are supposed to be better than good, they're too good for mortals, and all sorts of other things mixed in with it. I once met a guy who told me you had to suffer to be a paladin and that it wasn't supposed to be fun. Which was... awkward to sit with because I came to a game to have fun.

Being a Paladin should be hard. But why should playing one be? What special advantage does a player get for playing a paladin that warrants people insisting they role-play that character far better than they insist they role-play other characters?

Don't get me wrong. I am all for role-playing and having my Paladin abide by the Code. But the insistence that role-playing a Paladin must in any way be enforced, regulated or even promoted over other characters when no other character is treated that way is, IMO, utter nonsense.

[trollbill]

The Fox wrote:

Finlanderboy wrote:

I would really love to see a paladin that does not try to kill things in a black/white view.

My oni-spawn inquisitor of Sarenrae will never kill a living creature so they have the option of redemption. This includes devils and demons since he sees them as no different them himself before he "saw the light".

A non-lethal smiting would be awesome.

My human paladin uses a merciful weapon. My half-orc paladin has the redeemer archetype from the Advanced Race Guide, which allows for non-lethal smiting of monstrous humanoids at no penalty.

My Paladin is also a Gunslinger, so I always keep a Dragon Pistol loaded with rock salt handy.

[BigNorseWolf]

There's a pretty good argument to be had that they're a little stronger than a fighter and thats balanced somewhat by the stricter alignment and code requirements.

Its a tough balancing act to prod the paladins far enough away from the usual breaking and entering murder hobos so that they maintain their flavor but not so far that the murder hoboing you HAVE to do as your mission is impossible.

[MrSin]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

There's a pretty good argument to be had that they're a little stronger than a fighter and thats balanced somewhat by the stricter alignment and code requirements.

Eh... There's a strong argument fighter's aren't the most astounding class and that paladins and barbarians are two of the better martial yes. You also can't really balance things around roleplay.

[David Bowles]

Paladins aren't so amazing that they justify some of the RP handcuffs people on these boards have suggested. Paladins have always been a source of nerd strife over exactly how they are supposed to roll.

The fighter is looking really good when your main enemy for a story arc is something neutral. Paladins are goody goodies, but they need to be functional, because otherwise they are unplayable in a practical manner.

[Finlanderboy]

The Fox wrote:

Finlanderboy wrote:

I would really love to see a paladin that does not try to kill things in a black/white view.

My oni-spawn inquisitor of Sarenrae will never kill a living creature so they have the option of redemption. This includes devils and demons since he sees them as no different them himself before he "saw the light".

A non-lethal smiting would be awesome.

My human paladin uses a merciful weapon. My half-orc paladin has the redeemer archetype from the Advanced Race Guide, which allows for non-lethal smiting of monstrous humanoids at no penalty.

I know you guys exsist, but I never played with one.

[Nefreet]

Hey all,

HERE is the 2nd draft of Iomedae's Code. It's meant to be printed double-sided.

If all goes well I'll have time tonight to upload a few other deities.

Let me know what you think!

[redward]

Nefreet wrote:

Hey all,

HERE is the 2nd draft of Iomedae's Code. It's meant to be printed double-sided.

If all goes well I'll have time tonight to upload a few other deities.

Let me know what you think!

Thanks for adding the disclaimer up top. I think that does a good job of making it clear it's a voluntary, extracurricular document.

You might want to add quotation marks and citations for the Paladin code and the individual deity codes (e.g., CRB pp.XXX, Faiths of Purity, pp.XX) so that GMs signing the sheet know that the information is coming from official Paizo sources and not a player's personal code.

[TriOmegaZero]

Huh, you know I think I might start bringing that with me to gamedays.

[Doug Miles]

I like it. I'm making an Ulfen paladin (Divine Hunter) of Erastil, so hopefully that deity's on your list!

[Rogue Eidolon]

Nefreet wrote:

Hey all,

HERE is the 2nd draft of Iomedae's Code. It's meant to be printed double-sided.

If all goes well I'll have time tonight to upload a few other deities.

Let me know what you think!

This is great! If the .pdf was somehow form-fillable to allow entry of your own code, that would also be extremely useful for those of us with paladins of obscure patrons. I don't know how hard that is to do.

[WalterGM]

Mark Seifter wrote:

Nefreet wrote:

Hey all,

HERE is the 2nd draft of Iomedae's Code. It's meant to be printed double-sided.

If all goes well I'll have time tonight to upload a few other deities.

Let me know what you think!

This is great! If the .pdf was somehow form-fillable to allow entry of your own code, that would also be extremely useful for those of us with paladins of obscure patrons. I don't know how hard that is to do.

Form-fillable would be great.

I'm picturing players with clerics of Rovagug running around hitting chickens with greataxes. Then presenting their sheet to the table GM to get it signed.

"ROVAGUG BE PRAISED!!"

[The Beard]

Walter Sheppard wrote:

Mark Seifter wrote:

Nefreet wrote:

Hey all,

HERE is the 2nd draft of Iomedae's Code. It's meant to be printed double-sided.

If all goes well I'll have time tonight to upload a few other deities.

Let me know what you think!

This is great! If the .pdf was somehow form-fillable to allow entry of your own code, that would also be extremely useful for those of us with paladins of obscure patrons. I don't know how hard that is to do.

Form-fillable would be great.

I'm picturing players with clerics of Rovagug running around hitting chickens with greataxes. Then presenting their sheet to the table GM to get it signed.

"ROVAGUG BE PRAISED!!"

Or clerics of Shelyn spending the entire scenario sleeping with everyone in sight.

[Lasair Alant]

The Beard wrote:

Walter Sheppard wrote:

Mark Seifter wrote:

Nefreet wrote:

Hey all,

HERE is the 2nd draft of Iomedae's Code. It's meant to be printed double-sided.

If all goes well I'll have time tonight to upload a few other deities.

Let me know what you think!

This is great! If the .pdf was somehow form-fillable to allow entry of your own code, that would also be extremely useful for those of us with paladins of obscure patrons. I don't know how hard that is to do.

Form-fillable would be great.

I'm picturing players with clerics of Rovagug running around hitting chickens with greataxes. Then presenting their sheet to the table GM to get it signed.

"ROVAGUG BE PRAISED!!"

Or clerics of Shelyn spending the entire scenario sleeping with everyone in sight.

Posting as Lasair Alant, Cleric of Shelyn

Depending on the circumstances, this is either contrary to the Eternal Rose's doctrine (and more like her older chaotic self before her mother died) or at least not specifically relevant to fulfilling her code in any way. You may have mistaken her for Calistria, the Savored Sting? Or perhaps Arshea, the Spirit of Abandon. Or one of several evil entities I will not mention here to avoid their eyes upon us.

For a concise guide to the Eternal Rose's dogma, I recommend this short description that I previously wrote as a chronicle.

[Mattastrophic]

The Beard wrote:

Or clerics of Arshea spending the entire scenario practicing their daily devotion with everyone in sight.

Fixed that for you.

-Matt

[LazarX]

The Beard wrote:

Or clerics of Shelyn spending the entire scenario sleeping with everyone in sight.

Shelyn isn't really a diety more devoted to prostitution than many others. Art is her thing, not lust.

[Feegle]

Nefreet wrote:

Hey all,

HERE is the 2nd draft of Iomedae's Code. It's meant to be printed double-sided.

If all goes well I'll have time tonight to upload a few other deities.

Let me know what you think!

Once again, very nice, Nefreet. I think that it's different enough from the official chronicles - especially with the addition of the disclaimer - that you're probably safe from the trade dress issue I mentioned before.

One more suggestion I have is to take a little space at the bottom of the second page (or the first - whichever) to include the text required by the Community Use Policy. (Since you're using the Pathfinder Society logo image, I think this is a legal requirement.)

The text you want is this:

Quote:

This page uses trademarks and/or copyrights owned by Paizo Publishing, LLC, which are used under Paizo's Community Use Policy. We are expressly prohibited from charging you to use or access this content. This page is not published, endorsed, or specifically approved by Paizo Publishing. For more information about Paizo's Community Use Policy, please visit paizo.com/communityuse. For more information about Paizo Publishing and Paizo products, please visit paizo.com.

[Lysander Spurius Dragomir]

The Beard wrote:

Or clerics of Shelyn spending the entire scenario sleeping with everyone in sight.

"I don't get it, how can you sleep with everyone in sight? I mean, don't most people close their eyes when they go to sleep? I don't think Lady Rose wants people falling asleep whenever they open their eyes, it seems like a bad idea since blind people can't paint pictures or do sculptures as easily as seeing people can. Although some of them are really good musicians, but I'm not blind so I don't know if that applies to everyone. Anyway, clerics and us paladins of Lady Rose know well enough to only sleep in moderation. That way we have good dreams instead of ones that are night horses. Night horses are not friendly and like to bite people. Biting hurts. So now we know that night horses with black fire are not good."

[Nefreet]

Jeff Mahood wrote:

The text you want is this:

Quote:

This page uses trademarks and/or copyrights owned by Paizo Publishing, LLC, which are used under Paizo's Community Use Policy. We are expressly prohibited from charging you to use or access this content. This page is not published, endorsed, or specifically approved by Paizo Publishing. For more information about Paizo's Community Use Policy, please visit paizo.com/communityuse. For more information about Paizo Publishing and Paizo products, please visit paizo.com.

Thank you! Everytime I look at the Community Use Policy my eyes glaze over and I hear elevator music.

Sorry for the delays. I'm in the midst of not only packing/moving, but also getting ready for classes next week. I wasn't able to work on anything last night, but now I can include the above text in my final draft.

[Ocule]

Wow paladin code of conduct forums are painful to read and pretty much describe the one of the major reason everyone i know avoids the class. Its less on the player side and almost always on the GM side (i GM more than i play). Lawful stupid came about because of GMs absurdly strict enforcement on paladin conduct so i handle it like this.

1) Your alignment is relative, im not tallying up every little time you ignore a law or commit little minor acts of evil.

2) I care more about your paladins deity/personal code of conduct than i do your actual alignment. Ultimate question is "is your deity pleased with you" usually i would go over this with a player before the game starts and establish an actual code of conduct. Lawful can be fullfilled by adhering to your deity/order's code even if it violates local laws. However swearing an oath is serious and requires atonement to break.

3) In order to actually fall it requires significant violations of your code of conduct. Grey areas especially are best ROLEPLAYED into how your paladin deals with them. This means if there is no right or wrong answer to a problem or both options arent really good, i will not penalize a player for playing the game. I love presenting morally difficult situations to characters in my game, but i wont ever strip a paladin who is trying to do the right thing.

4) Atonement is only requires for significant alignment violations

So in short, paladins at my table are largely safe from falling as long as they are trying to stick to their code of conduct and i even go out of my way to reward good roleplaying or "taking the higher path" as it goes. That sad, they dont need to do non lethal and vow never to kill, they are still warriors and have free reign to even be aggressive in their pursuits. Not just defensive. Pass judgement on defeated enemies/coup de grace if they judge them worthy of such a fate. They dont have to take prisoners ever. They can even go so far as to ignore chaotic actions of party members such as rogues and necromancers. Provided they arent working towards evil ends. When i play a paladin sometimes my paladin will "turn a blind eye" if it is something he doesnt agree with or simply accept that people are free to choose their own path. Anyway hope this puts some new perspective on an otherwise difficult class.