Petition to increase minimum wage to 1945 levels


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The cost of labor is set at most levels by the market. Dropping minimum wage completely will not change what people are payed except at the lowest level of jobs and even there it likely wouldn't fall very far if at all. They NEED to have a first world incentive to attract workers. At a dollar a day no one would work and you couldn't run your business.


Aranna wrote:
The cost of labor is set at most levels by the market. Dropping minimum wage completely will not change what people are payed except at the lowest level of jobs and even there it likely wouldn't fall very far if at all. They NEED to have a first world incentive to attract workers. At a dollar a day no one would work and you couldn't run your business.

And the same argument would be made a few years after we raise the minimum wage to $15.

I suspect it would be equally wrong then. Without government intervention, there is no floor. Of course there is intervention other than minimum wage - people won't take a job for much less than they can get through various safety net programs, especially if you lose the benefits.

It wouldn't be immediate, of course, just the beginning of a downward spiral. Justified by the drops in prices, but leading them, since so much of the cost of goods isn't dependent on local labor.


thejeff you are wrong here. Why do you think like somewhere around 90% of minimum wage workers make MORE than that after a year of employment? It obviously has nothing to do with government intervention. Those companies could forever keep people at minimum wage and stay in governments good graces. NO they earn more than that because they now have on the job skills and their company now values their labor at a higher rate. A rate the company sets based on the market. Since they CAN keep wages lower than they currently DO and yet refuse to do so completely invalidates your post.


Aranna wrote:
thejeff you are wrong here. Why do you think like somewhere around 90% of minimum wage workers make MORE than that after a year of employment? It obviously has nothing to do with government intervention. Those companies could forever keep people at minimum wage and stay in governments good graces. NO they earn more than that because they now have on the job skills and their company now values their labor at a higher rate. A rate the company sets based on the market. Since they CAN keep wages lower than they currently DO and yet refuse to do so completely invalidates your post.

Because rewarding people for staying and developing skills is good for retention whatever level you start at? Even in states or cities that have raised the minimum wage, the same pattern happens. Most people who stay get a raise after a year or so. Even from companies who fought the wage hike.

More generally, the "rate the company sets based on the market", takes into account the minimum wage floor. They want to retain the slightly more experienced guy by paying him a little more than he'd start with elsewhere. Move to a lower minimum wage and they'd still want to pay a guy with a year's experience enough to keep him from wanting to start over at another company, which means a little above minimum.

That's what all the conservatives mean when they talk about "distorting the market". It's not that you are forced to pay employees an artificially high wage until they become valuable enough to earn a rate set by the market. It's that the very market rate itself is changed by government action.


Aranna wrote:

thejeff you are wrong here. Why do you think like somewhere around 90% of minimum wage workers make MORE than that after a year of employment? It obviously has nothing to do with government intervention. Those companies could forever keep people at minimum wage and stay in governments good graces. NO they earn more than that because they now have on the job skills and their company now values their labor at a higher rate. A rate the company sets based on the market. Since they CAN keep wages lower than they currently DO and yet refuse to do so completely invalidates your post.

How much of that 90% represent a fractional EOY pay increase that trailed fuel/food cost over the same period? 90% again? Yeah, thought so.


I do love the way everyone is focusing on McDonald's and other Billion dollar companies. What about the small businessman? What about small towns? I have a friend that runs a small town library, there are six part time minimum wage employees at the library. Raising the minimum wage would either mean fewer new books, firing employees and reducing hours, or raising taxes. So which do you choose? The library can't just raise prices.


Vod Canockers wrote:
I do love the way everyone is focusing on McDonald's and other Billion dollar companies. What about the small businessman? What about small towns? I have a friend that runs a small town library, there are six part time minimum wage employees at the library. Raising the minimum wage would either mean fewer new books, firing employees and reducing hours, or raising taxes. So which do you choose? The library can't just raise prices.

Incomplete choices. If you want me to manage the issue then I will need access to the towns books and demographic data. I am virtually certain than I can expand the library, increase the wages of the employees, hires new employees, extend the hours, upgrade the technology, and increase community outreach without costing their tax payers a dime.

But again, I would need specific information about the city.


BigDTBone wrote:
Vod Canockers wrote:
I do love the way everyone is focusing on McDonald's and other Billion dollar companies. What about the small businessman? What about small towns? I have a friend that runs a small town library, there are six part time minimum wage employees at the library. Raising the minimum wage would either mean fewer new books, firing employees and reducing hours, or raising taxes. So which do you choose? The library can't just raise prices.

Incomplete choices. If you want me to manage the issue then I will need access to the towns books and demographic data. I am virtually certain than I can expand the library, increase the wages of the employees, hires new employees, extend the hours, upgrade the technology, and increase community outreach without costing their tax payers a dime.

But again, I would need specific information about the city.

So you can increase spending across the board, salaries, equipment, and everything with no new moneys? You should go to Washington and balance the budget.


Vod Canockers wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:
Vod Canockers wrote:
I do love the way everyone is focusing on McDonald's and other Billion dollar companies. What about the small businessman? What about small towns? I have a friend that runs a small town library, there are six part time minimum wage employees at the library. Raising the minimum wage would either mean fewer new books, firing employees and reducing hours, or raising taxes. So which do you choose? The library can't just raise prices.

Incomplete choices. If you want me to manage the issue then I will need access to the towns books and demographic data. I am virtually certain than I can expand the library, increase the wages of the employees, hires new employees, extend the hours, upgrade the technology, and increase community outreach without costing their tax payers a dime.

But again, I would need specific information about the city.

So you can increase spending across the board, salaries, equipment, and everything with no new moneys? You should go to Washington and balance the budget.

I didn't say that. What city is the library in?


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Aranna wrote:

But the real question is are the people who have to pay for that pay increase cool with it? Because the middle class are the ones we should ask if this is ok. They are the ones who will pay higher prices without an increase in wages.

I am "middle class" should my fellow Australians have a safety net, should they share in the prosperity of my country, should they get a fair days pay for a fair days work... Hell yes.

It creates jobs...the more disposable income available - the more money is spent the more people are required for manufacture and retail.


Aranna wrote:

But the real question is are the people who have to pay for that pay increase cool with it? Because the middle class are the ones we should ask if this is ok. They are the ones who will pay higher prices without an increase in wages.

This is an attitude of "I got mine Jack, hands off".

Your point is that those who have money should be allowed to wall off their economic standing and refuse improvement to those below them.

Should the wealthy get to decide that the middle class can't increase their incomes?


Irontruth wrote:
Aranna wrote:

But the real question is are the people who have to pay for that pay increase cool with it? Because the middle class are the ones we should ask if this is ok. They are the ones who will pay higher prices without an increase in wages.

This is an attitude of "I got mine Jack, hands off".

Your point is that those who have money should be allowed to wall off their economic standing and refuse improvement to those below them.

Should the wealthy get to decide that the middle class can't increase their incomes?

Yeah, it's the Murican way


2 people marked this as a favorite.

It's been the Murican way only since the 70's when big business killed off the legacy of the New Deal.


The 8th Dwarf wrote:
It's been the Murican way only since the 70's when big business killed off the legacy of the New Deal.

Though it was also the American way up until the New Deal, so he may be more right than not.

Those decades really were the aberration.


Aranna wrote:

But the real question is are the people who have to pay for that pay increase cool with it? Because the middle class are the ones we should ask if this is ok. They are the ones who will pay higher prices without an increase in wages.

Being solidly middle class and not dependent on minimum wage at all, I would vote for a hike every time. So would the majority of Americans for that matter.

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