I am confused with casting while grappled

[leo1925]

I was brushing up my knowledge on grapple for my next Shattered Star game (stupid monsters with grab) and i realized that
a)my previous knowledge about casting while grappled was wrong
b)it doesn't matter because they errata'd some of it
Now i am still confused so i am hoping some of you might help me.
This is what i have understood so far:
1)The material component/focus thing isn't an issue, so you don't need eschew materials.
2)You can cast spells with somatic components while grappled but not while pinned.
3)Whether the spell has somatic components or not you have to make a concentration check (10+CMB+spell level) when you are grappled or pinned.

Did i get everything right?

[Majuba]

leo1925 wrote:

Did i get everything right?

Wow, you did indeed.

Nice job brushing up!

Edit: Eschew would be handy if pinned

[DM_Blake]

The strictest reading of the RAW means you should follow what it says under the Grappled Condition:

"Casting Spells while Grappled/Grappling: The only spells which can be cast while grappling or pinned are those without somatic components and whose material components (if any) you have in hand. Even so, you must make a concentration check (DC 10 + the grappler's CMB + the level of the spell you're casting) or lose the spell."

The Errata to the Concentration page seems to conflict with this, but really, all it does is repeat PART of this - it could be assumed that it isn't trying to delete or alter rules but rather it's just not repeating all them, perhaps in the interest of saving space. Another way to look at is that the actual Grappled condition says you cannot use somatic components and you must have the material component in hand, and the Concentration Errata confirms some but not all of this - which doesn't necessarily mean it denies or overwrites any of what the Condition says.

But I wouldn't play it this way. For example, if a grappled mage has a free hand and can pull a dagger out of his sheath and stab with it, then he has a free hand and can pull a component out of his component pouch. Also, we know that a caster can hold a staff, wand, rod, or weapon, or anything else, in one hand and still cast with somatic components, so we know spellcasting only requires one free hand, and we know that the Grapple rules and the Grappled condition both state that you can do anything that doesn't take two hands (only requires one hand) so clearly a caster SHOULD be able to cast spells with one hand free while grappled (but not pinned).

Knowing that, we must assume that the Grappled Condition is wrong. However, it's still RAW and not errata'd yet.

So, by RAW, it's very defensible to say that you cannot cast any spells while grappled if that spell has a somatic component or a material component that isn't already in your hand.

But by common sense, that cannot be correct so it shouldn't be played that way - it should be played exactly as the OP described.

[Jiggy]

DM_Blake wrote:

The strictest reading of the RAW means you should follow what it says under the Grappled Condition:

"Casting Spells while Grappled/Grappling: The only spells which can be cast while grappling or pinned are those without somatic components and whose material components (if any) you have in hand. Even so, you must make a concentration check (DC 10 + the grappler's CMB + the level of the spell you're casting) or lose the spell."

It doesn't say that anymore.

[leo1925]

@DM Blake
What Jiggy said. The sentence you are quoting is the one that got changed.

@Majuba
Why would eschew materials be handy if you are pinned?

[Rory]

Under the Concentration section of Magic:

PRD wrote:

Grappling or Pinned: Casting a spell while you have the grappled or pinned condition is difficult and it requires a concentration check (DC 10 + the grappler's CMB + the level of the spell you're casting). Pinned creatures can only cast spells that do no have somatic components.

Under the Grapple rules for Combat Manuevers:

PRD wrote:

If You Are Grappled: If you are grappled, you can attempt to break the grapple as a standard action by making a combat maneuver check (DC equal to your opponent's CMD; this does not provoke an attack of opportunity) or Escape Artist check (with a DC equal to your opponent's CMD). If you succeed, you break the grapple and can act normally. Alternatively, if you succeed, you can become the grappler, grappling the other creature (meaning that the other creature cannot freely release the grapple without making a combat maneuver check, while you can). Instead of attempting to break or reverse the grapple, you can take any action that doesn't require two hands to perform, such as cast a spell or make an attack or full attack with a light or one-handed weapon against any creature within your reach, including the creature that is grappling you. See the grappled condition for additional details. If you are pinned, your actions are very limited. See the pinned condition in Conditions for additional details.

Under Grappled in the Glossary:

PRD wrote:

Grappled: A grappled creature is restrained by a creature, trap, or effect. Grappled creatures cannot move and take a –4 penalty to Dexterity. A grappled creature takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks, except those made to grapple or escape a grapple. In addition, grappled creatures can take no action that requires two hands to perform. A grappled character who attempts to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability must make a concentration check (DC 10 + grappler's CMB + spell level), or lose the spell. Grappled creatures cannot make attacks of opportunity.

A grappled creature cannot use Stealth to hide from the creature grappling it, even if a special ability, such as hide in plain sight, would normally allow it to do so. If a grappled creature becomes invisible, through a spell or other ability, it gains a +2 circumstance bonus on its CMD to avoid being grappled, but receives no other benefit.