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I dunno. In light of Mummy's Mask.. To me it's too soon post-AP to be writing about it. Especially since Osirion is going to have three books and an whole AP dedicated to it so how much more cannon do we need at that point?
But Thuvia and Rahadoum are countries rather untapped. I mean Thuvia and Rahadoum only have a small feature in People of The Sands and The Inner Sea guide. Which I think would be a little more interesting and gives writers more options to grow lore, versus Osirian which is going to be completely fleshed out by the time we begin writing for Wayfinder 12.
Regardless, I'll be writing for it anyway, because I love writing Golarion Lore. But if Wayfinder is all about building on cannon and Golarion, we should grow on the lore that we don't necessarily cover all the time. Or are not recent AP's, like Cheliax, Katapesh, and Qadira. Which may not have a whole lot of Paizo coverage, but still deserves some new and original love.
Just food for thought....
I'm glad folks are sharing their thoughts about this. Tim has already given his perspective, so I figure, as the Asst EiC, I should give mine.
While Wayfinder is about giving fans a chance to build on canon and lore, we are also sensitive to the fact that we fans can easily take an element in a direction that is different from what Paizo intends. To the extent possible, we'd like to avoid situations where a writer develops something for Wayfinder on a topic that Paizo later develops in a different direction.
At that point, we would have two versions of the same thing in print. Even though Wayfinder isn't official and is automatically overridden by Paizo publications, the volume of material out there is tough to manage. It's possible that people might eventually unknowingly reference a Wayfinder article by mistake. We don't want to be responsible for any confusion about what the "real" version is.
Areas like Osirion may seem to be fully developed, but you'll note that much of Paizo's development involves dropping hints and seeds into the work, many of which will never be fleshed out in official publications. Those seeds, like the brief mention of an interesting locale, allow people to come up with their own stories without contradicting information established in other, major areas. Those are the kinds of things that we want our writers and designers to use.
With regions that have received little or no attention in official books, we are concerned that the sheer openness of the material will create too many opportunities for writers to develop things that contradict canon, once it is finally established. That's why we prefer to avoid places like Thuvia and Rahadoum for the time-being.
I guess the "tl;dr" version of my take is that Wayfinder's goal is to give writers, artists and our readers an opportunity to build on existing canon, not to create or contradict new canon. The likelihood of such a contradiction is just too high if we focus on places that Paizo hasn't explored, yet.
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I'll add my own voice to that of Tim and Paris.
Wayfinder has to walk that fine line between selecting themes which inspire people (to draw inspiration from the stuff Paizo has already published) and encouraging folks to spin all-new material (for stuff Paizo has never elaborated on). The best of way of targeting that design-space is to wait until Paizo has at least given a Player's Companion and Pathfinder Campaign Setting book for a specific location (not just the Inner Sea World Guide entry). That way, enough canon gets established right up front for people to use it in their designs, while simultaneously establishing a broad enough sense for where the "edges" are, so folks don't go overboard and contradict the vision Paizo has for an area.
For instance, trying to write Wayfinder articles for Thuvia and Rahadoum right now would be a risky, more difficult exercise, because there's still not enough material yet to provide a sufficient baseline of Paizo's vision and intent for those areas of Golarion. You could certainly extrapolate ideas from the campaign setting entires, the Death's Heretic novel, and other secondary sources. But, none of those are truly sufficient enough to lay out a number of a canon-approved "hooks" for both GMs and Wayfinder authors to draw upon.
However, once Mummy's Mask runs its course with all of the accompanying side articles in the backmatter of each AP chapter...as well as the People of the Sands Player's Companion and standalone Osirion sourcebook (updated from the original)...there'll be plenty of canon established to create a larger Paizo-approved "sandbox" in which people can reliably play with their own fan-made creations.
And, for comparison, you can look back at Wayfinder #10 and see that enough Qadira and Katapesh material existed in the form of the Legacy of Fire AP and existing location-specific sourcebooks for both nations that it worked well for this purpose, too. That's what spurs the highest level of creativity for most designers. Give'em a springboard of multiple things already established in canon which they can weave together in interesting ways. That's how you build upon canon rather than fly in the face of it. And, quite honestly, it's one of the things the Paizo folks enjoy seeing the most...i.e., cool, fan-made material which fits as seamlessly into Golarion as if they'd designed it themselves.
Ultimately, that should be everyone's goal who writes for Wayfinder. And, more people will be set up for success in hitting that goal if Tim and Paris select themes which are already propped up by the maximum amount of officially produced Paizo content. Essentially, they want people coloring inside the lines instead of going beyond them in ways the original picture was never meant to support or portray.
But that's just my two cents,
--Neil
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So I get all points involved, and it does make sense why Wayfinder wants to go that way.
But to quote Master Spicer, if we are going to color in the lines, can we choose a different coloring book perhaps? I think in light of Wayfinder 10, and Mummy's Mask and all the other coverage of Osirian, I think a lot of us agree that it's just a desert-land overload. It would be one thing if Wayfinder was a monthly or even quarterly production, so it can be better justified. But twice in two year span we would be doing lands of desert? It would be nice to put a gap between the two and let the coverage breath. Kind of like what you did with Cheliax. :)
However, there are still some other locations not quite covered as well that have gotten quite a lot of coverage from Paizo. For example, we don't have a lot of lore on Mendev/Worldwould despite the AP path and PFS scenario coverage. (Wrath minus the awesome plot, kind of was a bummer for me via lore. Would love to expand more on it.)
There is also other countries like Andoran, Galt, Taldor, Mana Wastes etc, that have gotten decent coverage by Paizo but haven't gone any further. Numeria is going to have to wait some more cause of Iron Gods. But I am okay with waiting on that.
We also haven't talked about other awesome ideas, such as special places that are covered in Distant Worlds, and Mythic Realms. Heck, Paizo, hasn't really gotten deep in Mythic as I had hope. It would be nice to create some new Mythic good stuff and have more fun with the system presented. Also, with Inner Sea Gods coming out, perhaps we should do a "Religious Lore" book that compliments Gods and Magic as well as Inner Sea Gods.
There are options. Regardless, I will support Wayfinder and write because I love it. But feel free to consider these ideas if not for 12, perhaps for 13 and other future Wayfinders.
Thanks for listening again. :)
Working on a bestiary entry. Just need to tidy it up a bit. Can we combine a creature with some related material, like a magic item made from its hide?
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While Wayfinder is about giving fans a chance to build on canon and lore, we are also sensitive to the fact that we fans can easily take an element in a direction that is different from what Paizo intends. To the extent possible, we'd like to avoid situations where a writer develops something for Wayfinder on a topic that Paizo later develops in a different direction.
*cough*Wayfinder 2 - Gunslinger Prestige Class*cough* ;)
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So I get all points involved, and it does make sense why Wayfinder wants to go that way.
But to quote Master Spicer, if we are going to color in the lines, can we choose a different coloring book perhaps? I think in light of Wayfinder 10, and Mummy's Mask and all the other coverage of Osirian, I think a lot of us agree that it's just a desert-land overload. It would be one thing if Wayfinder was a monthly or even quarterly production, so it can be better justified. But twice in two year span we would be doing lands of desert? It would be nice to put a gap between the two and let the coverage breath. Kind of like what you did with Cheliax. :)
However, there are still some other locations not quite covered as well that have gotten quite a lot of coverage from Paizo. For example, we don't have a lot of lore on Mendev/Worldwould despite the AP path and PFS scenario coverage. (Wrath minus the awesome plot, kind of was a bummer for me via lore. Would love to expand more on it.)
There is also other countries like Andoran, Galt, Taldor, Mana Wastes etc, that have gotten decent coverage by Paizo but haven't gone any further. Numeria is going to have to wait some more cause of Iron Gods. But I am okay with waiting on that.
We also haven't talked about other awesome ideas, such as special places that are covered in Distant Worlds, and Mythic Realms. Heck, Paizo, hasn't really gotten deep in Mythic as I had hope. It would be nice to create some new Mythic good stuff and have more fun with the system presented. Also, with Inner Sea Gods coming out, perhaps we should do a "Religious Lore" book that compliments Gods and Magic as well as Inner Sea Gods.
There are options. Regardless, I will support Wayfinder and write because I love it. But feel free to consider these ideas if not for 12, perhaps for 13 and other future Wayfinders.
Thanks for listening again. :)
The trick is not to look at this solely based on the shared environment, as was earlier stated. While the two regions may share a similar environment, the cultures are vastly different.
It's a difference of Emperors and "God Kings", a difference of an Empire that is still looking to grow and conquer and an Empire that is still rebuilding after having thrown off the other Empire's rule for the last 3000 years, a difference of a land of tales and known fact and a land of lost history and ancient secrets.
Heck, Osirion has the remnants of a Spawn of Rovagug sitting in the middle of a city! Not to mention a secret Cult of Rovagug above a sealed entry to the Darklands!
It really should not be looked at as "another desert issue" but as a "another cultural/society issue" ... different people, different cultures, different tales and different views of the world.
Just my 2cp (and my Anthropology degree taking hold of my keystrokes ;) ).
I am finishing up my fiction submission and hope to get that in by tomorrow. Editing went slowly since I suck at keeping things short, but I think that I finally got it right.
I have almost completed my short fiction and it's looking like it's going to come in at around 1000 words +/- 100. This puts it firmly in the middle of the 750/1500 limits, so I am a little concerned that it will fall foul of this criteria...
Short and sweet. Unless otherwise specified, article sizes are 750 and 1,500 words. These are HARD targets, not a range, so come as close as possible to these targets. Coming in too far under or over these targets will likely result in the rejection of your submission.
Now, I could add fluff, but I am worried it will be seen as adding fluff or I could remove a key scene, but that would then break the narrative or make the remainder seem a little contrived and stilted.
So I guess I am asking if it is okay to submit at this word count an article of fiction of around 1000 words knowing it's a bit of an odd word count yet still within the larger limit?
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I can probably field that question, Anthony, as it's come up in the past, and the answer is likely the same as it was then. You'll need to meet either a 750- or 1500-word limit...not something in between (unless it has the potential for being paired with other short articles to reach something more in line with a 750- or 1500-word article...e.g., a group of magic items, feats, or even monsters which can be written by multiple authors contributing to the final word count).
But, for fiction, you probably should go back to the drawing board. Add a scene which further enhances the story. Or, trim it back to 750 words. Your choice. And, ultimately, it's something you need to get used to as it's an integral part of writing to spec for a publisher.
Second article (Heroes Hoard) submitted!
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Wayfinder, PaizoCon Founder
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I want to write up an organization, probably 1500 words. Any examples of how to structure such an article? I was thinking of just following the model in the Inner Sea World Guide otherwise.
The Inner Sea World Guide is the EXACT reference you should follow for how to format an organization article!
Thanks Neil / Time
I suspected as much, but thought it didn't hurt to check.
My current draft is now 1,300, and I have an idea for expanding a scene with some descriptive combat action, so I think I should be okay. My current draft is with my reviewers just in case they spot some word count eating something and so I expect to be submitting in the next few days.
Hello again all,
It has been two issues and I am back! I just sent off my submission.
So, I have a question regarding this rule:
You should refrain from any submissions that are reliant upon another submission. This puts us in a difficult situation in being forced to take both if we just like the one, or taking neither of them. Any submitted articles that reference another article(s) must be pre-approved by the Editor-in-Chief.
I plan on submitting a trio of articles dealing with the same town. Could I, for instance, feature an NPC from a Weal or Woe article or a location from a Gazetteer in a separate fiction piece, as long as neither is necessary to understand the other? Or would this require prior approval?
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Contributor
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So, I have a question regarding this rule:
You should refrain from any submissions that are reliant upon another submission. This puts us in a difficult situation in being forced to take both if we just like the one, or taking neither of them. Any submitted articles that reference another article(s) must be pre-approved by the Editor-in-Chief.I plan on submitting a trio of articles dealing with the same town. Could I, for instance, feature an NPC from a Weal or Woe article or a location from a Gazetteer in a separate fiction piece, as long as neither is necessary to understand the other? Or would this require prior approval?
There's no problem with submitting different articles that share something in common, but you definitely need to be sure that each article stands on its own. If we have to rely on one article to make sense of another one, then we will consider that a violation of the submission guidelines.
Your example of submitting a gazetteer for a specific town or similar location, then having a weal or woe that describes two characters whose stories intersect in that location should be fine. You should be able to write both articles so that they enhance each other without requiring us to use both of them.
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I'd like to be able to have my own submission(s) link to articles by others, as I think the previous examples of such worked well (last issue having a Weal or Woe, fiction and scenario utilising the same two NPCs).
So, is anyone currently using the Bellflower Network, in their submission? If so, I whipped up an anti-slavery folk shanty today, to the tune of The Ghost of Tom Joad.
(original 1995 version; I think a 2014 Tom Morello guitar freakout might strain verisimilitude.) :)
The operatic 'Korvosan Jingoistic Anthem' is coming on apace, though I'm considering having the original song's foreign parts rendered in English, since I realised the male and female lead are likely to be both singing in Taldan anyway. And I don't want to pester Bardess to find translations that scan, if she's working on her own stuff.
So, is anyone working on material suitable for 'A Night at the Opera'?
(no, it is not based on Bohemian Rhapsody. Or anything from that album. But you can have a shiny No-Prize, if you can PM me with your correct guess, before I submit.)
My submissions are already sent, all three of them, so go ahead and pester me!
And it's away! 1474 words in the end - phew!
Now, for items, I have one idea already but the problem is that to own such a wondrous item would be regarded as highly treasonous in Cheliax - this makes it a kind of dangerous/plot item to own and which breaks some of the RPG Superstar Auto Rejects for item design.
If you are still short on items though, I can write it up and send that in as well.
I've got a Weal and Woe, plus a monster in the works; I hope to finish them up over the weekend & submit on Sunday or Monday. I'll try to whip up a magic item or two as well.
One deadline caught, barely. I can try to think of something for Wayfinder now.
Can we get another update of what editors still need more of now?
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PaizoCon Founder, Wayfinder Editor-in-Chief
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UPDATE:
Bestiary: currently only 9. MORE MONSTERS = BETTER.
Class: 11. 5 Archetypes, 3 PrC. 1 Bloodline. 2 Mysteries Need more class options (bloodlines, schools, rogue talents, etc.) in the devilish vein.
Crunch: 3. One each of spells, feats. A kingdom-building article, too. DEFINITELY NEED MORE.
Fluff: 6 submissions. 2 Gazetteer, an organization, a cult and 2 articles on places. DEFINITELY NEED MORE.
Look at the campaign setting materials on Cheliax...lots of places mentioned or placed on a map that have little more than a couple of sentences as a seed. Pick one....expand on it.
Fiction: 8 submissions. A larger pool would be good.
Poetry/Song: 1 submission. Still looking for that opera....
Side Trek Seeds: 3. A few more would be welcome.
Weal or Woe: only 4. Could use a couple more, ON THEME. Lower level ones (lvl 3-5) would be nice.\
That's 45 submissions. Almost halfway to the 100 submissions by March 31st I would like. And 17 days to go! Keep 'em coming!
I've still got a monster coming; was just looking at it now, actually.
Are there already infernal summoner and infernal witch archetypes?
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Weal or Woe: only 4. Could use a couple more, ON THEME. Lower level ones (lvl 3-5) would be nice.\
I just snuck into your inbox and hid another Weal or Woe there. It may or may not have explosive runes prepared. It also may or may not be a hungry naunet protean I scribbled the text in magic marker on. I make no promises.
:D
I have a monster and an article about various Chelaxian underground groups to submit. I have given them to a friend to proof-read and should be with you next week.
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PaizoCon Founder, Wayfinder Editor-in-Chief
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I'm also starting to assemble our lists of editors and our artist roster.
I am ALWAYS looking for new artists who would want to show the community and RPG industry their talents. It could be that you are a talented artist looking to get that break so that you can get some bigger commissions that aren't just someone's character, but actually in a published work. Let us know!
Or maybe you have a friend that is really, really good at illustrating, but is still working on building up their portfolio. Point them our way!
Whatever the situation, email Wayfinder with a link to your online gallery (deviant art, website, etc) so we can check out your art pieces.
Or you can drop a link here in the thread, or on our FB page.
Thanks,
Tim
I noticed you didn't mention Wizard Arcane school that I submitted, did you get those?
Also, can count me in to edit again.
I stand corrected. Yes, one of those class articles was optional Wizard schools.I noticed you didn't mention Wizard Arcane school that I submitted, did you get those?
Also, can count me in to edit again.
Great; still considering doing another class features article, possibly rogue talents if I can come up with some good ideas, but if anyone else is working on Rogue I won't.
On magic items: With RPGSS just ending we will be starting the Blazing 9 item practice thread soon (Monday I think :). If we work up an item there (on the Paizo boards) can we submit it to Wayfinder, or should we go through email/PMs?
Was combing over Dante's Inferno and came up with a monster submission idea (still can't believe no one ever used this before). Will work it up and send it your way in a couple of days. Possibly some diabolic magic items...maybe a summoner archetype if this fuzzy idea clarifies and/or you don't already have one. Could even get a fiction piece in if I catch hold of the muse. Orrin D'Vaul hasn't been to Cheliax yet.
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PaizoCon Founder, Wayfinder Editor-in-Chief
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On magic items: With RPGSS just ending we will be starting the Blazing 9 item practice thread soon (Monday I think :). If we work up an item there (on the Paizo boards) can we submit it to Wayfinder, or should we go through email/PMs?
We've used stuff that was first shown on the boards....I have no problem with that, as long as YOU are the one that created it (no swiping someone else's work!), and it meets all our guidelines.
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I just finished up the first draft for my organization, clocking in at exactly 1,500 words. I need to go over it and polish it up before I send it in though. I'm pretty busy with my master's thesis right now, so I don't know if I'll be able to get any more stuff written up, though I have some other ideas.
I wonder if my first piece went under Archetypes or PrCs.^^
And the second had both spells and feats.^^
I want to make an article containing a mix of infernal themed feats, rogue talents, possibly rage powers, possibly hexes, maybe a magus arcana or two... Assuming work leave me enough time and brain-power to polish the base ideas I have.
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I have a monster and an article about various Chelaxian underground groups to submit. I have given them to a friend to proof-read and should be with you next week.
Is any of those underground groups related to the Bellflower network, or otherwise have a slave-rescuing theme?
As well as a song about riding the freedom caravan, I had an idea for the writer being a working-class hero bard, with a Woody Guthrie theme.
I considered this for a 'Weal or Woe' but haven't yet come up with a foil for him (or rather, the potential foil I had in mind would require a Prestige class, maybe putting both of them way above Tim's ideal suggested low-level range).
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PaizoCon Founder, Wayfinder Editor-in-Chief
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I wonder if my first piece went under Archetypes or PrCs.^^
And the second had both spells and feats.^^
Actually, I had put them both in the Crunch category. Your PrC archetype was at the very end, and most of the article centers around that feat, so I considered it very much a "rules crunchy" article.
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PaizoCon Founder, Wayfinder Editor-in-Chief
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OK, I'd like to mobilize the community here a bit.
Oceanshieldwolf has been trying to jumpstart a fanzine for Kobold Press's Midgard Campaign Setting for a while now.
He's pretty well set for content, but he really needs ART to fill those pages, now.
Wayfinder has found this community is FILLED with talented artistic folks. So, while I did just put a call out for artists to join our own art roster, I would really like you to also consider joining the Yggdrasil Fanzine project to help get their very first issue up and out the door. I want you to spiffy up that issue with some great art. I want this fan community to show off those talents once again!
Your art would be in a first issue publication, and I have no doubts that kobold eyes would be watching....and that could be a good thing.
;-)
I'm glad I'll be (hopefully) over my kidney stone by tomorrow. I need to get my articles in and luckily I still have time. I have an interesting idea that I feel isn't look at as often in Cheliax :)
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OK, I'd like to mobilize the community here a bit.
Oceanshieldwolf has been trying to jumpstart a fanzine for Kobold Press's Midgard Campaign Setting for a while now.
He's pretty well set for content, but he really needs ART to fill those pages, now.
Wayfinder has found this community is FILLED with talented artistic folks. So, while I did just put a call out for artists to join our own art roster, I would really like you to also consider joining the Yggdrasil Fanzine project to help get their very first issue up and out the door. I want you to spiffy up that issue with some great art. I want this fan community to show off those talents once again!
Your art would be in a first issue publication, and I have no doubts that kobold eyes would be watching....and that could be a good thing.
;-)
Thanks so much for this shout-out Tim - I've already received a couple of emails, and as I said over in the Yggsdrasil thread, one was from Silvia "Crescentmoon" Gonzalez who illustrated my Bonewitch from Wayfinder #7!!!
This community is fantastic - I am endlessly enamored of the spirit of fostering creativity and general moral support!!!
If you haven't checked out the Midgard Campaign Setting then by all means do so - you can find a free preview HERE...
Midgard combines the lesser used Eastern and Northern European fantasy tropes, as well as injecting some clock/gearpunk, a Dragon controlled kingdom, a fiendish Gnome society, some great Viking nations, lost Atlanteanesque technology and a very interesting take on the dominions and portfolios of Gods and Goddesses that allows them to cater to different groups, and allows different groups to approach their teachings in different ways...
Plus Minotaurs, Gearforged, and Dragonkin as dedicated PC races... ;)
UPDATE:
Bestiary: currently only 9. MORE MONSTERS = BETTER.
Class: 11. 5 Archetypes, 3 PrC. 1 Bloodline. 2 Mysteries Need more class options (bloodlines, schools, rogue talents, etc.) in the devilish vein.
Crunch: 3. One each of spells, feats. A kingdom-building article, too. DEFINITELY NEED MORE.
Fluff: 6 submissions. 2 Gazetteer, an organization, a cult and 2 articles on places. DEFINITELY NEED MORE.
Look at the campaign setting materials on Cheliax...lots of places mentioned or placed on a map that have little more than a couple of sentences as a seed. Pick one....expand on it.Fiction: 8 submissions. A larger pool would be good.
Poetry/Song: 1 submission. Still looking for that opera....Side Trek Seeds: 3. A few more would be welcome.
Weal or Woe: only 4. Could use a couple more, ON THEME. Lower level ones (lvl 3-5) would be nice.\
That's 45 submissions. Almost halfway to the 100 submissions by March 31st I would like. And 17 days to go! Keep 'em coming!
What about magic item articles?
You had none before and I know I submitted something there after that...
Just was curious. Was I the only one to jump on that need?
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Maybe everyone's burned out from writing and reviewing RPG Superstar entries?
After so many years of Superstar, plus 13 years of WotC and 3PP D&D and PF publications, it seems like every possible item that ever could exist, must have been done by now?
I know I don't have trouble coming up with ideas for items, what I find paralysing is the fear that someone else has already written it, and I'll look like a plagiarising fraud.
I also had a conversation with SKR, on his youtube account, in which I mentioned there's a schism in the Superstar voting community, between people who want off the wall items, which manifest their component spell effects in non-standard ways (i.e., what the staff ask for), and those who mark down items for not behaving exactly the same as the spell description.
In other words, people are often being slammed, and voted down, for not writing Spell-In-A Can items!
