|
It sounds like this is a reasonably well-balanced party. Regardless of how well or poorly the PCs are optimized, they should do fine.
The two elves have picked the least-optimized classes for elves (druid and monk), but they should be able to make it work just fine.
The Ranger would do well to be a switch-hitter.
The Barbarian/Oracle will do fine so long as he/she reads the guides to Barbarian and Rage Prophet.
My biggest concern is for the monk. Unless the monk is well optimized this PC might be overshadowed by the others. The Barbarian will be just as fast and will hit a lot harder. The sorcerer will be just as sneaky. I suggest the monk either be a Zen Archer, a Tetori grapler monk, or a Crane Style devotee.
For the ranger, try using the TWF combat chain, but add in Improved Shield Bash and Improved Dirty Trick if he has the Int for it. That way he can stun or sicken opponents, and still be offensive. Depending on level, he can also grab Point-Blank and Precise shot.
I'm about to start a new pathfinder campaign, as GM, with 5 friends of mine. Now, those 5 friends are inexperienced players, so they ask me for some advices, but I'm still busy making the storyline of the campaign...in less words, I need help ^^
contents allowed: Core Rulebook, Advanced Player's Guide
there's the PCs; they'll never change nor race, nor class; any advice regard archetypes, feats, spells, Prestige Classes and Equipment are welcome:
1)Half-orc Barbarian/Rage Prophet:
He want a melee fighter who's able to heal in battle, and like the shaman flavor of the rage prophet. Life oracle (channel) and lame curse seems a good starts, but other ideas are welcome.2)Gnome Sorcerer, Shadow Bloodline:
He's planning to be a very stealthy sorcerer, basically hide-and-cast a lot, focusing on illusions. need help expecially for the spell list.
Is spell perfection(shadow evocation) worth it in this case?3)Elf Druid:
She want to be a shape-shifter druid with wolf companion. Probably she'll make a wolf shaman specialyzed in tripping the opponents.4)Elf Monk:
Basically, whatever works with Elf and Monk is fine here, feel free to suggest wathever you like ^^ (remember, CR and APG only)5)Human Ranger, Guide/Skirmisher:
This is the only one who's almost done, but any advice will help. Basically a switch-hitter with composite longbow, bastard sword (used both 2 handed and 1 ahnded) and shield (for TWF...what a mess ^^).I know it's a lot of work, so, thanks for any advices you'll give to me ^^
Ironically, all of these race/class combos look equally non-optimal which in my opinion is just great. Each clearly has an idea of what concept they'll have fun playing, none are in danger of consistently overshadowing the others... personally, I say go with what you're doing and enjoy yourselves. As long as you have a solid GM capable of challenging you in ways appropriate to the party make-up you should do fine.
1) He's going to wreck things. Just make sure to grab power attack
2) His power depends on how the GM handles illusions
3) Strong class, bad race. What is the point buy? (if you are rolling stats, God have mercy on your souls) If it's 20 then he could go 16str 8dex, 14con, 12int, 15wis, 8cha before race mods. Favored class bonus goes to health, put all level based attribute increases into Wis.
4) Sorry. This won't work. At all. Especially without access to the agile property. This character should but an 18 into cha, get skill focus(use magic device), and Magical aptitude. Then they can spend the rest of the game using wands. NOTE: This is the same tactic I would use for someone playing a commoner
5) Just go to the switch hitter section Basically he grabs power attack at one and picks the range style. Shield takes to many actions to put on and take off to be of use to a switch hitter.
It sounds like there are a lot of people making good suggestions on what can help this party survive. The way I learned to survive a campaign was to build what I wanted against the suggestion of others, then my GM killed me horribly. I then made another character disregarding suggestions others gave me which also died horribly. Finally, I realized that if you want your character to survive a game you have two choices 1. Have a GM that will never kill you or 2. Make intelligent decisions when building my characters.
|
Might I suggest pointing them to the messageboards to ask for optimization tips for individual characters? It could help for more specialized advice. Still
1.)Rage Prophet is a bit tough for beginners, because they have to understand multiclassing and prestige classing, and rage prophet can be kinda confusing. But still, probably wants Lame curse, metal or battle mystery (my favorite is metal), and then vanilla or invulnerable rager barbarian (whichever he prefers). I'd order stats Str>Con>Cha>Dex>Wis>Int with Con and Charisma as close as possible.
2.)I don't know a ton about illusion magic, but he probably wants a high charisma for spell DCs and bloodline features. I'd recommend him being a Wildblooded sorcerer with the Umbral bloodline and Eldritch Heritage (Shadow Bloodline). Or if you as a GM would allow it, he take Shadow bloodline and Eldritch Heritage line for Umbral, but that isn't exactly RAW (I'd allow it anyday personally). Stats I'd order at Cha>Dex=Con>Wis>Int>Str
3.)Not sure about a shapeshifter build, but the Wolf shaman isn't an optimal choice. Can't advise much for druids other than stats ordered like Str=Wis>Con>Dex>Int>Cha, with a decent Dex so he/she can pick up the feat Fury's Fall which adds Dex to trip CMB if you allow the feat.
4.)This choice will hurt him quite a bit. Completely want to dump Charisma and Intelligence just for points, and order stats as Dex~Wis>Con>Str>Int>Cha, having him take the crane style line of feats and pump his AC as much as possible. Or be a zen archer with a moderate to low dex, a high wisdom and strength, and none of the typical monk worries. Or perhaps he'd prefer a brawler playtest class build, if you have the ACG playtest to help him with, flavored as a monk, because of the better HD, BAB, and armor.
5.)Can't speak much for rangers. Haven't really played many, so can't help much.
For the monk try using the Zen Archer variant as others have said, but if that doesn't strike their fancy i'd suggest Dodge, Mobility and build towards Improved Trip or Improved Disarm if many of their opponents are humanoids. Run in, grab weapon/trip them, move away.
If you have a copy of Ultimate Campaign or are willing to cherry pick, Panther Style would work wonders.
I'm about to start a new pathfinder campaign, as GM, with 5 friends of mine. Now, those 5 friends are inexperienced players, so they ask me for some advices, but I'm still busy making the storyline of the campaign...in less words, I need help ^^
contents allowed: Core Rulebook, Advanced Player's Guide
there's the PCs; they'll never change nor race, nor class; any advice regard archetypes, feats, spells, Prestige Classes and Equipment are welcome:
1)Half-orc Barbarian/Rage Prophet:
He want a melee fighter who's able to heal in battle, and like the shaman flavor of the rage prophet. Life oracle (channel) and lame curse seems a good starts, but other ideas are welcome.2)Gnome Sorcerer, Shadow Bloodline:
He's planning to be a very stealthy sorcerer, basically hide-and-cast a lot, focusing on illusions. need help expecially for the spell list.
Is spell perfection(shadow evocation) worth it in this case?3)Elf Druid:
She want to be a shape-shifter druid with wolf companion. Probably she'll make a wolf shaman specialyzed in tripping the opponents.4)Elf Monk:
Basically, whatever works with Elf and Monk is fine here, feel free to suggest wathever you like ^^ (remember, CR and APG only)5)Human Ranger, Guide/Skirmisher:
This is the only one who's almost done, but any advice will help. Basically a switch-hitter with composite longbow, bastard sword (used both 2 handed and 1 ahnded) and shield (for TWF...what a mess ^^).I know it's a lot of work, so, thanks for any advices you'll give to me ^^
Don't bother.
Make the characters you want, give them the capabilities you wish, if you are new, maybe go light on the magic items so accomplishment comes from the characters and rp, not the items (so your dependency on magic items as the answer and cure all won't increase).
There is nothing wrong with starting simple, complexity and optimization can come later.
If you keep it an even playing field, and they try to stick to some sort of build or concept, it will be ooookay.
You've got a campaign to focus on, try not to take on too much.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Don't build characters for your friends. It encourages laziness and hand-holding. Have conversations with your friends about their character-building, of course. Hell, print out this thread and show it to them.
Give a man a fish, he's not hungry for a day. Teach a man to fish...
PS. Why do the characters have to be optimized? Will that make up for a boring campaign?
PS. Why do the characters have to be optimized? Will that make up for a boring campaign?
Never, but it can cause a player to have a bad time playing his character.
I would suggest basic barbarian unless they will be leveling more barbarian levels later, when PrCing, you don't get high enough in the class to really benefit from their later on abilities. Rage prophet gains lvls in oracle/barb for revelations/curses and ragepowers, not other special class abilities (from what I recall) such as the invulnerable ragers damage reduction. And it has to be an oracle class not a cleric (requirement is revelation for the prc)
I went life oracle for a chaotic paladin feel, rage with falchion not bad. Another good few are battle/metal/wood, using a great club while raging and shelelagh means pain. And remember, some revelations can only be had at higher levels (combat healing I think is a good one, but lvl 11 oracle if I remember correctly)
Monk is definitely and advanced class to understand and use properly, they are in a way a great battlefield controller, but I've seen the zen push out some massive damage.
sometimes the basic class is as powerful as any of the archetypes and usually less confusing. So base druid wouldn't be bad, can make it any way they want and still use the wolf companion. Magic fang is your friend.
If your ranger doesn't want a pet, recommend the Guide archetype. Of the AC-less ranger archetypes I've looked at, it seems to be the most useful. It's also APG.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I played an elf druid archer in 3.5 with a dog companion, and he was super effective. Very, very versatile. I started out with Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot (Rapid Shooting produce flame sells is FUN!), then took the obligatory Natural Spell (lets you cast while wildshaped), and I went with Empower Spell (Empowered flame strikes are FUN!), Improved Counterspell (It was a caster-heavy campaign, and I got to knockout fireballs and lightning bolts using flame strikes), and Craft Wand (it was one of those "badguys are taking over civilization, so you can't go to Ye Olde Majick Shoppe" campaigns).
Anyways, I could use archery, my pet tanked, I could wildshape to tank and scout and fly, which made me Airwolf once I could blast from the air, I could battlefield control, summon real well (even without Augment Summoning!), maxed ranks in Perception (actually Listen and Spot in 3.5) + super-high Wisdom + 2 racial bonus made me an EXCELLENT "perceiver," and the Intelligence bonus from elf will make you an even better skill monkey.
Alternatively, maybe go "reach cleric" with the druid. Longspear + Combat Reflexes is all you REALLY need, but Power Attack and Pushing Assault will be useful too--also if you plan on wildshaping.
Don't build characters for your friends. It encourages laziness and hand-holding. Have conversations with your friends about their character-building, of course. Hell, print out this thread and show it to them.
Give a man a fish, he's not hungry for a day. Teach a man to fish...
PS. Why do the characters have to be optimized? Will that make up for a boring campaign?
So true!
So true!Don't build characters for your friends. It encourages laziness and hand-holding. Have conversations with your friends about their character-building, of course. Hell, print out this thread and show it to them.
Give a man a fish, he's not hungry for a day. Teach a man to fish...
PS. Why do the characters have to be optimized? Will that make up for a boring campaign?
Eh, I can sort of understand where the OP is coming from; with inexperienced players, perhaps 'optimization' isn't vital, but it's somewhat important that all characters can perform well and not be completely ineffective.
As for character building, though, I'd probably walk them through it. Have them make the choices, but from a much narrowed down list of options. Once they have experience with the way rolling up a character, they'll be more free to branch out from the easy no-fuss options, to stuff like archetypes and more complicated options.
@ XMorsX
Right, I'm not saying that wis is unimportant, just that the only thing it has over dex is ki (which is very important, so he should still put points into it). While wis CAN affect your attack rolls, dex already does, and will continue to do so, so no harm, no foul there...As for the Stunning Fist, doesn't the Zen Archer give that up for Perfect Strike?
@ Hzardus
Actually, the requirements for rage prophet are:
1) BAB +5
2) Oracle's Curse class feature
3) Moment of Clarity rage power
4) Knowledge (religion) 5 ranks
5) Ability to cast 1st level divine spellsThey also gain a 3/4 caster progression with ANY divine spellcasting class they possess (prior to gaining the PrC), but only that one class. Thus you could have an Oracle/Barbarian/Cleric/Druid go into this PrC (why they would, I don't know, but it is a legal combo), and they could choose to increase their Druid casting OR their Cleric casting OR their Oracle casting...but only 1 casting class gets the increase.
This^
True, been a minute since I actually looked at it, knew that it dealt with some actual part of the oracle. And unless for flavor, there isn't any reason to go into any of the other ones because as it is stated, the levels of RP stack with curse/revelation/rage power abilities. So it would do more harm than good to multiclass more than necessary.