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I just looking for something to use more often, keeping all the use/day skills for situation when they can make the difference (like if I have my hand tied up and needed to cast a spell, or saving Impromptu Sneak Attack when I absolutely need the extra damage from surprise spells at any cost ^^)

by the way, I just notice that Impromptu Sneak Attack says you can declare one of your attack to be a sneak attack, but it also mention a targhet...those that mean, if I cast a fireball with surprise spells, then only the first targhet take the sneak attack damage and the others in the area of effect of the spells take only normal damage?

Looking more closely, since Surprise Spells says you can add the sneak attack damage against flat-footed enemyes, not that the spell is considere itself a sneak attack, is even possible to use Impromptu Sneak Attack to activate the effect of Surprise Spells?

thanks a lot

so, basically I can make a sneak-spellcast without using silent spell if:
The target is Blinded
The target is Cowering
The target is Flat-footed
The target is Helpless
The target is Paralyzed
The target is Pinned
The target is Stunned
The target is Unconscious
I am Invisible
I am Stealthed before the sneak attack

and in the last 2 cases attacking reveal my presence and position so I can sneak attack only once; then I need to disappear again, except for greater invisibility. I am correct?

what use can I do of silent spell then? can I avoid using it completely?

Thanks for the replyes

So, basically, even if I use verbal component for the spells, i can make the sneak attack because (at least in my turn before attacking) the enemy isn't aware of my presence.

what if I have greater invisibility? even if I hit the targhet, and he's aware of me, but cannot see me, I can still make another sneak-spellcast in the following round?

for the scorching ray fact, I know how much peoples are arguing about, but I don't want to get into the argument XD

NOTICE: CORE RULEBOOK AND ADVANCE PLAYER HANDBOOK MATERIAL ONLY THANKS!

Correct me if wrong, basically a sneak attack can be done when:
The target is Blinded
The target is Cowering
The target is Flat-footed
The target is Helpless
The target is Paralyzed (causes Helpless condition)
The target is Pinned (causes Flat-footed condition)
The target is Stunned
The target is Unconscious (causes Helpless condition)
You are Flanking the Targhet
You are Invisible
You are Stealthed and sneak attack, whitout being seen, before the targhet notice you (usually in the surprise round)

Now those can be easily done with meele and ranged weapons (except flanking with ranged attacks for obvious reasons), and most of those works even with spells too (those who requires attack rolls like rays)

Now, what I'm wondering for is...

1. Using a spell with verbal component whould make you unable to do the sneak attack because the targhet is aware of you the moment you cast the spell?
2. Same happen if you're Stealthed or Invisible?
3. What if the target is Blind (no Dex bonus to AC) but not Deaf?
4. Except Silent Spells and the Oracle's Deaf Curse, there's other ways to cast spells without revealing yourself with the verbal components?
5. There's some spell who doesn't have a verbal component and can be used for a sneak attack?
6. There's an "easy" way to achieve the "no Dex bonus to AC" condition, instead of sneaking or being invisible? I'm interested mostly about ranged touch attack, so Feint doesn't apply.

If you can, in game situation examples are appreciated.

Thanks for you time ^^

In a way or in another I was able to do everything, and the campaign are soon to start, thanks everyone for you advices and your efforts ^^

@everyone:
thx for the replyes, those are really useful.
there's the situation...

the ranger, the druid and the sorcerer are pretty much done, the only two left are the monk and the rage prophet.

I found a guide for the zen archer and it's the next one to be build....even if I'm not totally sure about it, as everyone says, lack of wisdom is bad for a monk.

The only problem is I haven't found nothing about the rage prophet, Magda Luckbender had mentioned something about a guide, anyone know if there's one on internet? couldn't find any.

DM Under the Bridge, you're correct...
I can simply let them play the way they want, but, even if they're all inexperienced, that's don't take away the fact that someone could play better than the others. I think being the weaker in the party is one of the worst experience you can get while playing an RPG like this; and I'm trying to prevent this.

And, on a second point, I'm making the campaign basically from zero, so, knowing what the players would be in the next fewer levels, will help me to not make some obvious mistake (like putting against them monsters against someone or the majority of the partym are useless).

Thanks everyone for replying, all you advices are much appreciated

@Galahad2112:
for the ranger I take the Archer combat style to get all those bow feats who need a ton of Dex as prerequisite, and then take only TWF and go for the shield feats, Quick Draw should work with both the sword and the shield, so the Switch-hitting strategy should work, even if not optimal.

For the barbarian I just feel lost about the feats, as you said, the rage prophets lost a lot of revelations/rage powers/rage round, and probably I need to take some feats to cover that loss. Unfortunately, he's refusing the cleric multiclassing option. Using the mistery of life could give him a few nice support effect, expecially since rage prophet levels stacks with oracle for revelations like channeling and life link.

Thank's for the advices about sorcerer spells and monk's archetype Zen Acher, probably I'll just go that way.

For the druid, I think the only alternative for her is to go plain druid, no archetypes, and sticking with some base guides (Treantmonks probably)

@Wiggz:
That's the problem, I'm the GM, and I haven't played for ages (from 3.5 basically); now i feel anxious XD.

@Marthkus:
1)check!
2)I was reading about just now
3)probably point buy, I'll take your advice in strong consideration
4)I don't think he like to be the "wand slave" of the party
5)I'll try my best, unfortunately I can't force him to go into plain switch-hitter, hope he's change his mind while leveling

@Satchmo:
Hope I don't have to teach them in the hard way, but if they start making a lot of mistakes, eventually they're gonna die.

@ArmouredMonk13:
1)I'll look a little further into battle mistery, maybe that will help.
2)Eldritch Heritage and Umbral aren't from CR or APG, He's gonna go pure Shadow Bloodline.
3)Fury's Fall isnt' from CR or APG neither.
4)Crane Style isn't nor from CR nor from APG, as said before, he's probably get the Zen Archer archetype.
5)Don't worry, thank you anyway ^^

@Morganstern:
I'll take a look for the trip or disarm, but probably he'll go Zen Archer at that point (He son't seem enthusiastic about grappling, trippling, disarming, etc...)

@Atarlost:
I'm not obligated, but I don't want them to have a bad experience when I'm the GM, so I'll try to do my best in both ways. As you say, I'm aware that multiclassing isn't good anymore (at least for the most of cases) but I want them to play what they want.

phew, that was a lot of text ^^

Thanks for replying Morganstern

I haven't consider the Dirty Trick option, it sounds fun, maybe it can be used with some Hunter's Tricks...I need to look about ^^.

Thanks, Magda, for your reply

The Ranger would do well to be a switch-hitter.

I've tried to convince him to go simply switch hitter, but he still want to keep bastard sword and shield. I've managed to make a barely decent ranger with just Two Weapon fighting and a couple of shield feats...then he says he want no Animal Companion. (you know? Somethimes I feels like the players want to make life hard for me ^^)

The Barbarian/Oracle will do fine so long as he/she reads the guides to Barbarian and Rage Prophet.

Can't find the guide for Rage Prophet, can you post a link?

I suggest the monk either be a Zen Archer, a Tetori grapler monk, or a Crane Style devotee.

Tetori and Crane style aren't nor from CR nor from APG, but the Zen Archer may work, I'll look over it.

Thanks for replying XmorsX

1) Straight Paladin or a Paladin / Oracle multiclass will approach better the concept of a fighter that can heal. Rage Prophet is not suited for inexperienced players.

2) Good enough, can also go seeker for a roguish flavor.

3) Weak concept to start of. Elves does not even have a bonus to wisdom or Str. Can' he start with a Half-Elf at least? Wolf shaman is mediocre after the first lvls, it is best to start as a vanilla druid with a wolf AC. Menhir savant is a nice archetype.

4) Same as above for the race comment.

5) Either he goes TWF, or goes switch hitter with bow and two handed weapon. It is too feat intensive to do it all together that it will just not work. Bastard sword is generally suboptimal and waste of a feat.

some advices will be take in consideration, but, as i stated before, they'll not change nor race, nor class (the main reason I need help, that's will be easy if they take no PrC or archetypes ^^). and Menhir Savant isn't nor from CR nor from APG, se we can't use it.

I know those classes/races aren't optimal, epecially for beginners; for this reason I'm trying to take out the most possible from every class and at least make them balanced. Since they're beginners it's easy for one or two to shine while the others do nothing, so I was looking at least to balance them.

P.S. the player who want to go Rage Prophet once used a Paladin, now he hate the class, expecially for the alignement restriction ^^

I'm about to start a new pathfinder campaign, as GM, with 5 friends of mine. Now, those 5 friends are inexperienced players, so they ask me for some advices, but I'm still busy making the storyline of the campaign...in less words, I need help ^^

contents allowed: Core Rulebook, Advanced Player's Guide

there's the PCs; they'll never change nor race, nor class; any advice regard archetypes, feats, spells, Prestige Classes and Equipment are welcome:

1)Half-orc Barbarian/Rage Prophet:
He want a melee fighter who's able to heal in battle, and like the shaman flavor of the rage prophet. Life oracle (channel) and lame curse seems a good starts, but other ideas are welcome.

2)Gnome Sorcerer, Shadow Bloodline:
He's planning to be a very stealthy sorcerer, basically hide-and-cast a lot, focusing on illusions. need help expecially for the spell list.
Is spell perfection(shadow evocation) worth it in this case?

3)Elf Druid:
She want to be a shape-shifter druid with wolf companion. Probably she'll make a wolf shaman specialyzed in tripping the opponents.

4)Elf Monk:
Basically, whatever works with Elf and Monk is fine here, feel free to suggest wathever you like ^^ (remember, CR and APG only)

5)Human Ranger, Guide/Skirmisher:
This is the only one who's almost done, but any advice will help. Basically a switch-hitter with composite longbow, bastard sword (used both 2 handed and 1 ahnded) and shield (for TWF...what a mess ^^).

I know it's a lot of work, so, thanks for any advices you'll give to me ^^

I can just make an assumption, usually paladin don't have any skills that increase weapons bonus, correct me if wrong.

The Divine Defender can use shared defense to increase his armor bonus for a number of rounds equal to his CHA modifier.

So, a level 20 paladin can have a +6 armor bonus, with +3 to CMD, +3 to all saves, auto-stabilized if fewer than 0 HP or less, 25% immunity to critical and snake attack (not cumulable), immunity to bleeding and armor bonus +3 to give special capacities to the armor.

this seems pretty strong IMHO, even if you have to use 2 standard action to activate both ^^; oh, and by the way, those bonuses remains even if the paladin is unable to fight, if still alive.

Why +3, and not +5 like all similar habilities. there is an error?

I can just make an assumption, usually paladin don't have any skills that increase weapons bonus, correct me if wrong.

The Divine Defender can use shared defense to increase his armor bonus for a number of rounds equal to his CHA modifier.

So, a level 20 paladin can have a +6 armor bonus, with +3 to CMD, +3 to all saves, auto-stabilized if fewer than 0 HP or less, 25% immunity to critical and snake attack (not cumulable), immunity to bleeding and armor bonus +3 to give special capacities to the armor.

this seems pretty strong IMHO, even if you have to use 2 standard action to activate both ^^; oh, and by the way, those bonuses remains even if the paladin is unable to fight, if still alive.