Can you provide a link to this Ki Arcana? It doesn't seem to exist on the PRD or on D20pfsrd.
In any event, if such a thing exists it would be problematic. But only because it would allow you to generate unlimited Arcana points.
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Spell Recall (Su)
At 4th level, the magus learns to use his arcane pool to recall spells he has already cast. With a swift action he can recall any single magus spell that he has already prepared and cast that day by expending a number of points from his arcane pool equal to the spell’s level (minimum 1). The spell is prepared again, just as if it had not been cast.
Just because you surge to learn new spells, doesn't mean you can use them. Spell recall require it to have been one already memorized and used that day.
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It's not spell recall he's talking about, it's knowledge pool that is important.
At 7th level, when a magus prepares his magus spells, he can decide to expend 1 or more points from his arcane pool, up to his Intelligence bonus. For each point he expends, he can treat any one spell from the magus spell list as if it were in his spellbook and can prepare that spell as normal that day. If he does not cast spells prepared in this way before the next time he prepares spells, he loses those spells. He can also cast spells added in this way using his spell recall ability, but only until he prepares spells again.
What he's trying to do is use Paragon Surge to pick up spell blending and grab several wizard/sorceror spells and add them to the magus spell list and then use Knowledge Pool to memorize them now and add them to his spellbook.
THEN use the drunken monk ability to replenish his KI which can be used as Arcane Pool points.Finally he then uses Spell Recall with his unlimited arcane pool points to recover paragon surge and repeats this processes.
This will let him add every wiz/sorc spell of 6th level or lower to his spell list and spell book.
It's a redo of an old trick where you used a wyroot club and a bag of rats to have unlimited arcane pool points and burn them to get every spell/arcana/power out there.
As a GM, I'd rule that you only get the benefit of the feat as long as paragon surge lasts, and that any spells added to your spell book this way become incomprehensible to you after the duration ends. It's a nice combo for a bit, but i think using paragon surge to permanently add spells to your spell book is outside of RAI.
Also note that the Ki Arcana is not really necessary for this combo, only for speeding up the time table of it. Any half elf magus could (conceivably) do this, only adding as many spells to his book as he has arcane points in the day, then repeating the next day.
Considering that this is not a problem already, I'd say this combo does not work.
Here is the feat the OP is talking about.
A reasonable DM is going to call for some Fortitude saves versus intoxication (the DC increasing with each consumption). The sickened and nauseated conditions are nothing to scoff at.
Sounds like an unbalanced 3rd party feat. I'd only use things published by Paizo. They are the developers of the game and wouldn't let an feat with unbalancing interactions with core class mechanics like this into the game.
Oh, look, it's another guy who thinks all 3rd party is bad.
How original.
For a kensai i think it is not the worst idea. You get wisdom to AC and if you are Wild you can use unarmed strike and snake style combined with somthing like Frostbite to have alot of fun. I dont think the drikningen to get every Spell is gonna work the working on knowledge pool and improved Spell knowledge will get in the way. But you can have Lot of arcane pool points and that is great. Only problem is that you May want to be level 9 before doing it so you can use tjhen to attack touch AC.
It's a neat enough trick to consider (granted, you're losing a lot of power if you're dipping a minimum of 3 levels into monk). Imagine, if only gestalt and mythic, oh the drunken lout character you could make......
You could also dip two levels of Ninja, which is considerably better. Two levels of Ninja nets you +1d6 Sneak Attack damage, a Ki Pool, and Vanishing Step. In all, you can spend ki/arcana to turn invisible, make an additional attack during a full attack, or gain a bonus to Stealth or AC for 1 round. Not a bad deal if you're willing to make Charisma a priority stat alongside Dexterity.
I could see this build working well with a Weapon Finesse character.
If you don't care about balance you can already use a wyroot club to generate infinite arcana points.
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Ninja would work well for a 2 level dip, you don't get refreshable Ki points like a Drunken Monk but you get it a level earlier and you get some Ninja Tricks. Also, dip one level of Cleric and grab a Bronze Gong.
At 9th level you have the following:
1+Cha Ki points from Ninja (Interchangeable with Arcana)
3+Int Arcana points from Magus (Interchangeable with Ki)
3+Cha Channels (Convertible to Ki with Bronze Gong)
So you potentially have 7+2*Cha+Int Ki or Arcana points, 1st Level cleric spells, 2 domains, +1d6 Sneak Attack, poison use, a Ninja Trick, and your Magus stuff. You can also take vows to boost your Ki or Arcana points.
Not over powered but opens up doors for Ki or Arcana intensive builds, throw in Magical Lineage and your CL for Magus is only down 1 level (doesn't help with spell progression though).
Not over powered but opens up doors for Ki or Arcana intensive builds, throw in Magical Lineage and your CL for Magus is only down 1 level (doesn't help with spell progression though).
In my experience with Magus, if you want to be effective at dealing damage, you only need enough casting power to get Shocking Grasp to deal 5d6 damage. Aside from that spell, most of your magic is utility.
I think its worth pointing out that with a level prerequisite of Magus 6, you can't actually take this ability until 10th level. So while it goes a long way towards making multiclass magimonks more powerful, its a pretty late-game investment.
That said, the class combo is fairly interesting, especially with some planning. You could easily pick up Monastic Legacy to add half of your Magus levels to your Monk level when determining your unarmed strike damage in addition to Ki Arcana.
Next, we need to look into whether or not you can combine Flurry of Blows and Spell Combat; both abilities function similarly in that you essentially gain Two-Weapon Fighting, but one must wonder if you could essentially make your off-hand attack a spell that you choose to cast!
How do you guys get ki pool with only 3 monk levels? Is it an AT i have missed?
ki mystic+drunken monk i guess?
How do you guys get ki pool with only 3 monk levels? Is it an AT i have missed?
Drunken Master lets you have Ki Points at 3rd level, but you certainly don't have a "ki pool."
As a matter of fact, because the game differentiates between Ki and Drunken Ki (some abilities specifically require drunken ki) I could see some GMs ruling that you couldn't spend drunken ki on magus abilities because druken ki and ki aren't the same thing, and allowing one doesn't grandfather the other.
Not sure if I'd do that, however, considering the inherent limitations on drinking alcohol. After all, you *could* get addicted, then bad stuff happens.
ki mystic+drunken monk i guess?
Seems like it. Thanks :)
Ki Arcana is a new Magus Arcana from Magical Marketplace. You can read it here --> Ki Arcana
Hmmmm...an excellent reason why I whitelist core only books* and make everything else require permission.
*And even then I have removed certain material
Ki Arcana is a new Magus Arcana from Magical Marketplace. You can read it here --> Ki ArcanaHmmmm...an excellent reason why I whitelist core only books* and make everything else require permission.
*And even then I have removed certain material
Until I do more research, Ki Arcana is likely more of a trap than an OP game breaker, even for the Drunken Master. You need to be a 6th level Magus to take it as well as a 4th level Monk (or 3rd level if you're a Drunken Master), which adds up to a 9th level character. Alternatively, you could go Ninja 2, Rogue 2, or Oracle 5 for a Ki Pool. For the Oracle, you need to be a Tengu.
The character you end up designing will spend 2 to 4 levels having very little synergy with itself while requiring good Intelligence, Wisdom/Charisma, and Strength to truly maximize. This isn't including the dubious nature regarding whether or not you could make a "Flurry of Spell Combat," or whether you would even care to try!
This does allow for a few neat multiclass builds to spring forth. For one, we could see Magus Builds utilizing Monastic Legacy, allowing them to specialize in Unarmed Combat somewhat. If we're looking at Magus 6 / Monk 3, you're a 6th Level Monk for unarmed strike damage, which is neat. Alternatively, you could go Weapon Adept Monk (which stacks with Drunken Master) for a few nice bonus feats on your way towards the Ki Pool.
So, if you don't allow Drunken Ki to function with Ki Arcana, there's no problem. If you do allow Drunken Ki to function with Ki Arcana, you need to remember that A) drinking alcohol is a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity and B) you can only drink a number of drinks equal to 1 + double your Con before becoming sickened for 1 hour. A –2 penalty to everything could be nasty, although the easier rule is to say that temporary ki points can't be used as arcane points and vice versa.
I've been trying to find the rules for drawbacks to drinking alcohol, where did you find the rules for 1+ double your con mod Alexander?
GameMastery Guide, pg. 237, there's a sidebar on drunkenness as an addiction. It says that in general, a character can drink 1 + double their Con modifier before being sickened for 1 hour for every drink above this maximum. Really strong booze like elven absinthe is considered a legitimate drug, and those who drink a ton can develop a moderate addiction.
GameMastery Guide, pg. 237, there's a sidebar on drunkenness as an addiction. It says that in general, a character can drink 1 + double their Con modifier before being sickened for 1 hour for every drink above this maximum. Really strong booze like elven absinthe is considered a legitimate drug, and those who drink a ton can develop a moderate addiction.
So they're saying I had a CON of over 20 back in college? (Now apparently it's around 12.)
@icehawk333 I think you failed your Sense Motive check.
Probobly.
Does it list a timeline all of these drinks need to be consumed in? Or is it by day?I've been trying to find the rules for drawbacks to drinking alcohol, where did you find the rules for 1+ double your con mod Alexander?GameMastery Guide, pg. 237, there's a sidebar on drunkenness as an addiction. It says that in general, a character can drink 1 + double their Con modifier before being sickened for 1 hour for every drink above this maximum. Really strong booze like elven absinthe is considered a legitimate drug, and those who drink a ton can develop a moderate addiction.
I would think by day, since if you develop an addiction you have to make Fortitude saves daily. If you have enough drinks to make you sickened into the next day, then it would roll over, though.
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I would think by day, since if you develop an addiction you have to make Fortitude saves daily. If you have enough drinks to make you sickened into the next day, then it would roll over, though.Does it list a timeline all of these drinks need to be consumed in? Or is it by day?I've been trying to find the rules for drawbacks to drinking alcohol, where did you find the rules for 1+ double your con mod Alexander?GameMastery Guide, pg. 237, there's a sidebar on drunkenness as an addiction. It says that in general, a character can drink 1 + double their Con modifier before being sickened for 1 hour for every drink above this maximum. Really strong booze like elven absinthe is considered a legitimate drug, and those who drink a ton can develop a moderate addiction.Just seems odd. Drinking 21 ales in 21 rounds then you get a fort save. 21 ales in 21 hours then you get a fort save. The first one is likely to send you spinning vomiting everywhere. The second wouldn't make you drunk at all as you'd metabolize the alcohol fast enough.
Keep a supply of soothe syrup, stillgut, and alchemists kindness.
Constitution MODIFIER not Con score, very different numbers.
Your character could have 6 drinks before getting sickened and most characters can do about 3 or so.
After two drinks, he might be sickened. Sickened isn't vomiting your eyeballs out. It's -2 to most d20 rolls and to damage. That's it. That maybe does make an average person a little bit of a lightweight, but -2 on skill checks (a one-in-ten chance of failing something moderately difficult as a result of having been drinking) after a few drinks sounds about right to me. "Sickened" here is just standing in for the effects of mild intoxication. The sort of sickness that people think of when they hear "he got sick from drinking too much" is what the system calls "nauseated".
So they're saying I had a CON of over 20 back in college? (Now apparently it's around 12.)
GameMastery Guide, pg. 237, there's a sidebar on drunkenness as an addiction. It says that in general, a character can drink 1 + double their Con modifier before being sickened for 1 hour for every drink above this maximum. Really strong booze like elven absinthe is considered a legitimate drug, and those who drink a ton can develop a moderate addiction.
Perhaps. "Sickened" could represent being too drunk to drive. "Nauseated" would represent the point where your stomach is exploding all over the rim of your toilet, and "Unconscious" would represent ... well ... self-explanatory. :-)
After two drinks, he might be sickened. Sickened isn't vomiting your eyeballs out. It's -2 to most d20 rolls and to damage. That's it. That maybe does make an average person a little bit of a lightweight, but -2 on skill checks (a one-in-ten chance of failing something moderately difficult as a result of having been drinking) after a few drinks sounds about right to me. "Sickened" here is just standing in for the effects of mild intoxication. The sort of sickness that people think of when they hear "he got sick from drinking too much" is what the system calls "nauseated".
To further give credence to Joyd, characters who are seasick gain the sickened condition, so the Con 10 Commoner who's drank two drinks rather quickly is about as impaired as someone who is suffering from seasickness, which is pretty accurate.
So, if you don't allow Drunken Ki to function with Ki Arcana, there's no problem. If you do allow Drunken Ki to function with Ki Arcana, you need to remember that A) drinking alcohol is a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity and B) you can only drink a number of drinks equal to 1 + double your Con before becoming sickened for 1 hour. A –2 penalty to everything could be nasty, although the easier rule is to say that temporary ki points can't be used...Just to correct one minor thing, the Drunken Master archetype allows you to drink as a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
I know I'm a little late to the party, but just to throw in my 2cp:
I'm running a Ninja4/Magus2 right now. I have both the Arcane and Ki pools, with a total of 5 in each.13
20
14 (after lvl4)
18
12
17
I have taken the Magical Knack trait (+2 caster level). I have taken Weapon Focus: Wakizashi as my first Ninja Trick, along with Two-Weapon Fighting as my level 3 feat.
1. Ninja 1: Poison use, Weapon Finesse, 1d6 Sneak Attack
2. N2: Ninja Trick: Weapon Focus: Wakizashi, Ki Pool
3. Magus 1: Arcane Pool, Spell Combat, Two-Weapon Fighting
4. M2: Spellstrike, +1 CON
5. N3: No Trace, Craft Wondrous Item, 2d6 SA
6. N4: NT: Forgotten Trick, Uncanny Dodge
The interesting thing about this build, that I just figured out, was that once I get Ki Arcana, a method of reliably refilling my Ki Pool at will (I'm looking at you, Amulet of Hidden Strength), and a way to reduce the cost of using Forgotten Trick (I'm looking at you, Ring of Ki Mastery), I can do pretty much anything I want in terms of combat, courtesy of Forgotten Trick: gain extra feats for any weapon on the spot, become an improvisational Maneuver Master, recall spells all day long, plus an extra attack at my full BAB, with +1 to attack because of my Arcane pool use.