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Tachnically, I believe a PC only gets the gold for the encounter if they lived through it, though I would likely award it for the encounter anyway so long as the character actually contributed in some way. I dont think the Guide specifically says the character 'must' survive to get paid, so I dont think doing so would be any cause for alarm.
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The gold is the divided loot attributed to the party as a whole. As such they receive all the gold.
They most certainly do not. You earn the gold by completing the encounters. So if you have to leave early for some reason, you do not earn the gold for the encounters you didnt play through.
So Im choosing to define 'complete' by saying as long as the PC participated, they should get the gold. Someone else may define it as needing to have lived through the encounter.
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You earn the gold by completing the encounters. So if you have to leave early for some reason, you do not earn the gold for the encounters you didn't play through.So I'm choosing to define 'complete' by saying as long as the PC participated, they should get the gold. Someone else may define it as needing to have lived through the encounter.
That's interesting. I would define 'complete' as having lived through the encounter. I would love to have a final ruling. Until then, I'm going to treat it as no gold for not finishing the encounter.
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I think Zach is right.
It's only if the whole party doesn't get to the end that they don't get the gold, because at the end of the scenario, the whole party gets paid, the dead character is resurrected, and each party member had equal risk of dying in that encounter.
There's obviously exceptional cases where a player walks out or has to leave early; that's not the same thing - it's unfair to the other players. Even then I think there's some GM discretion?
I've never really been 100% sure on this either though. Not sure if anyone can quote any text from the PFS guide that suggests otherwise?
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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The only text I can find is: (page 35 of the guide)
Determine the Max Gold for the scenario based on the PC’s advancement rate and the subtier played. Circle the applicable value (F). (out of tier stuff snipped) This value represents the total gold piece value a character may receive for defeating all enemies and finding all treasure in a scenario. (snip pregen rules) If the PCs failed to earn any of the rewards listed for an encounter, deduct the amount listed for the applicable subtier from the value circled in area F.
that makes it sound like you only deduct gold if the PCs don't complete the encounter, not just if the player fails to complete it.
The dead PC is already taking a hit, either in gold or prestige, and I do not feel that it would be appropriate to hit them with a double whammy - your dead, pay this gold, and no pay gold for you either.
If the PC needed the gold to get raised, otherwise they did not have enough gold and would stay dead, I think that it would be seen as overly harsh for denying the PC the gold and having them stay dead.
One question that I fall back on a fair bit when looking at these types of questions is: will this make the game more fun/give a better experience?
None of the other PCs are getting less gold due to the dead PC getting a share, so no negative effect there. The players know that they can die in the game, so the doubt/fear/danger of dying is still there. I suspect that the frustration of the player will be less, as the resource hit won't be quite as bad.
I would give the PC the same gold as the other PCs, as long as the player stayed to the end.
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The players as a 'Group' finish the scenario. Each player who plays and participates receives their full share of gold. The key word is participates, which means not leaving early, but staying and finishing the scenario with the rest of the group.
I would hate to see GM's start to run this any other way and can only see the worst coming from it, "Hey you only completed 66% of the scenario before you died, so you get less gold." Calculations like this does not support cooperative play.
"None of the other PCs are getting less gold due to the dead PC getting a share, so no negative effect there. The players know that they can die in the game, so the doubt/fear/danger of dying is still there. I suspect that the frustration of the player will be less, as the resource hit won't be quite as bad." - Mistwalker
I agree 100%.
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That's interesting. I would define 'complete' as having lived through the encounter. I would love to have a final ruling. Until then, I'm going to treat it as no gold for not finishing the encounter.
You earn the gold by completing the encounters. So if you have to leave early for some reason, you do not earn the gold for the encounters you didn't play through.So I'm choosing to define 'complete' by saying as long as the PC participated, they should get the gold. Someone else may define it as needing to have lived through the encounter.
Im just using it as a way to be a little more generous about it, as Id rather err on the side of giving the PC a bit too much and them being able to afford a Raise, and denying them a small amount and costing them their ability to Raise. In many cases, it would probably depend on the situation though.
As far as what the guide says...
If the PCs failed to earn any of the rewards listed for
an encounter, deduct the amount listed for the applicable
subtier from the value circled in area F.
So if 'completing the scenario' means doing every little thing and finding all the treasure, then sure, they get full gold. But if it means skipping over something and they dont ever go back to do it yet still reach the conclusion, they should not be awarded gold for stuff they didnt actually find.
This kind of thing has happened at least once that I know of. VC Michael VonHasseln was the GM and he was running The Penumbral Accords.The group had previously played Mists of Mwangi, so they suspected the bbeg would be in the same room, went directly there and defeated him. Since that triggers the end of the scenario, contact with the shadow plane is broken, taking any loot and faction missions that might have been there because of the shadow plane with it, keeping the PCs from gaining gold, and in this case XP (since the other bad guys go back as well, so there is no third encounter, and Prestige).
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Here's the way I understand the rule:
If a character dies in the first encounter, and stays dead for the rest of the scenario, then I check to see whether the party takes his corpse back to safety right away, heals him,or just leaves his body where it lies.
The default seem to be: they take it back to town or some other secure location. The remaining PCs can't loot his backpack for his wand of cure light wounds after the second encounter, but if he had been borrowing someone else's wand, they would have taken it back from his corpse.
Likewise, if the rest of the party gets kidnapped and tortured, he doesn't suffer the effects of the mistreatment. If the rest of the party goes on to kill a fellow Pathfinder and gets a "negative boon" black mark, he doesn't share in that. If the rest of the party dies and needs both a raise deadand a body recovery, his own body is already recovered. Once he's dead, his continued risks in the game are 0.
So, he shouldn't get a share of the treasure, either. (It's a little weird that the other PCs'shares don't go up or down, but that's SOP in PFS. I've never said someone argue against a fifth PC joining the group "because then we'd have to split our take five ways instead of four.")
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I cannot find anything in the guide to contradict what has already been stated. I have had a character die a few times, now. I've always granted them full gold (and in a few times, they've had to use that money for a Raise Dead mid-scenario).
This is the only exception I'd be more careful about. The dead PC shouldn't get the full amount of gold on the chronicle sheet mid-scenario - though they should probably have access to a subtracted amount for the encounters they've gone through so far.
Once they get raised, they can proceed with the mission (assuming that's still possible), and the cost of the raise just counts as a normal expense.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Yeah. I think I could make an arguement either way, all coming down to how you interpret a single plural s. But in the absence of a ruling from Paizo, I am going with the "everyone gets the same gold, even the people who died" interpretation.
Though as Avatar said, you only get the gold you have earned up till that point if you are talking about getting raised mid adventure.
(I do remember carrying one guys body all through the adventure so he could get the 2nd prestige point, which was what he needed to be raised... I don't think I have ever seen everyone more worried about whether we met the secondary success conditions before.)
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I would define 'complete' as having lived through the encounter.Im just using it as a way to be a little more generous about it, as Id rather err on the side of giving the PC a bit too much and them being able to afford a Raise, and denying them a small amount and costing them their ability to Raise. In many cases, it would probably depend on the situation though.
So if 'completing the scenario' means doing every little thing and finding all the treasure, then sure, they get full gold. But if it means skipping over something and they dont ever go back to do it yet still reach the conclusion, they should not be awarded gold for stuff they didnt actually find...
There's also this to be mindful of, whichever way you read it:
If that scene specifically calls for the PCs to receive gold piece rewards based on the gear collected from the defeated combatants, instead allow the PCs to find
a chest of gold (or something similar) that gives them the same rewards.
...
Pathfinder Society Organized Play never wants to give the impression that the only way to solve a problem is to kill it—rewarding the creative use of skills and roleplaying not only make Society games more fun for the players, but it also gives the GM a level of flexibility in ensuring players receive the rewards they are due.
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I would define 'complete' as having lived through the encounter.Im just using it as a way to be a little more generous about it, as Id rather err on the side of giving the PC a bit too much and them being able to afford a Raise, and denying them a small amount and costing them their ability to Raise. In many cases, it would probably depend on the situation though.
So if 'completing the scenario' means doing every little thing and finding all the treasure, then sure, they get full gold. But if it means skipping over something and they dont ever go back to do it yet still reach the conclusion, they should not be awarded gold for stuff they didnt actually find...
There's also this to be mindful of, whichever way you read it:
If that scene specifically calls for the PCs to receive gold piece rewards based on the gear collected from the defeated combatants, instead allow the PCs to find
a chest of gold (or something similar) that gives them the same rewards.
...
Pathfinder Society Organized Play never wants to give the impression that the only way to solve a problem is to kill it—rewarding the creative use of skills and roleplaying not only make Society games more fun for the players, but it also gives the GM a level of flexibility in ensuring players receive the rewards they are due.
TBH, I think that one is very situational. Im fine with awarding the loot from an encounter the PCs roleplayed through instead of fighting, but if they never go into Room C and nothing else they do ever appeases what is in there in some way, then they get no C loot IMO.