Ok first this is not one of those classic threads of straitjacketing the player paladin and stripping him of his powers. I have a newer(ish)player to PF and his first at running a paladin, of Iomedae. From what im seeing from him, previously an oracle of battle last campaign,is he's generally running a "find all evil and kill it philosophy". While this actually works out pretty well for say a pali of iomedae it might play out differently for say, a pali of Sarenrae.
Now the first issue popped up yesterday. WENDUAG was hiding in the refuse closet and popped out sniping the wizard. Everyone rushed in and WENDUAG was quickly brought down to dying. The wizard, smacked down a bit, for spite continued to just cast BLEED on her. The Pali let him do so, searched her, and then was going to kill her. He knew she didn't radiate evil- i wasn't sure she should even though she worships baphomet she has no spell power yet so is she really radiate the same evil as a cleric? I simply told him being a worshiper of Iomedae it might not be the most honorable thing to do. She's beaten, unconscious, and helpless. I wasn't going to strip him of his powers or anything but figured this was a good time to bring up (early)the whole paladin code and let him get a precursor to possible moral dilemmas that might or could arise later in his career. With some griping and moaning he decided to stabilize her and tie her up. He later also took prisoner 2 cultists (bapmomet and Deskari)and Hosilla, who did ping evil but were put to sleep. These i would have actually been ok with putting to death. I think he took my "not to honorable to kill a helpless person" to the extreme. while i think this would be perfect for a pali of sarenrae a pali of Iomedae..not so much.
So i guess what im asking is what would be a good code for a beginner pali of Iomedae to maintain giving were this campaign takes place- the worldwound,and given that the city isn't in much of a state to actually maintain much law and order for trials and such. Also what aspects would take precedence for a paladin of Iomedae- Valor, Rulership, Justice, Honor? Good before law? While im sure some code issues will pop up from time to time it probably wont be anything major because of the AP. I'm not a stringent GM but i do want the player to have a sense of SOME code and to experience it, since paladins do get some pretty good opportunities and powerful treasure this AP. I don't want him to have the mentality to ping evil and murder everything on the radar with no recourse, being a herald of JUSTICE after-all and that it could very well get him and the party killed in the final book.... Also i feel the paladin is no longer the absolute goodie two shoes he was in the earlier editions.
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Let him know OOC the difference between his choices. Bring up the Justice Aspect of it. I am not entirely sure of the regions Laws, but being they are indeed fighting Demons and the like He could perhaps give them a chance to repent before giving them final justice. I would just think to remind him about cruelty. I hope he has a high crit, high damage side weapon for coup de grace frontier punishment.
I mean he could indeed be the Judge, Jury, executioner of worldwound issues... as long as he played it fair and gave them a chance to repent. It might be beyond the scope of things. Make sure he has read about his chosen Diety. I used to get amazed at how many people just chose a god off of what domains they would have access to as a cleric and then played totally out of ethos.
Also as GM you could make sure to help take some of the grey area out of it. Make Wendaug plead for life, make the evil cultists spit upon the paladin or try to escape when awake or spit a whole series of vile epitats. Make it obvious there is no repentance for some of the evil. Just a few thoughts im by no means an expert.
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Iomedaean Paladins have a code it is in Faiths of Purity.
Iomedae The paladins of Iomedae are just and strong. Their
mission is to right wrongs and eliminate evil at its root.
They are crusaders and live for the joy of righteous battle.
They serve as examples to others, and their code demands
they protect the weak and innocent by eliminating sources
of oppression, rather than the symptoms. They may back
down or withdraw from a fight if they are overmatched,
but if their lives will buy time for others to escape, they
must give them. Their tenets include:
• I will learn the weight of my sword. Without my heart
to guide it, it is worthless—my strength is not in my
sword, but in my heart. If I lose my sword, I have lost a
tool. If I betray my heart, I have died.
• I will have faith in the Inheritor. I will channel her
strength through my body. I will shine in her legion,
and I will not tarnish her glory through base actions.
• I am the first into battle, and the last to leave it.
• I will not be taken prisoner by my free will. I will not
surrender those under my command.
• I will never abandon a companion, though I will honor
sacrifice freely given.
• I will guard the honor of my fellows, both in thought
and deed, and I will have faith in them.
• When in doubt, I may force my enemies to surrender,
but I am responsible for their lives.
• I will never refuse a challenge from an equal. I will give
honor to worthy enemies, and contempt to the rest.
• I will suffer death before dishonor.
• I will be temperate in my actions and moderate in my
behavior. I will strive to emulate Iomedae's perfection.
For human opponents it is mainly up to you but the paladin can act as judge and jury, at least in my games. Once knocked out a paladin can't really coup de grace any humans. But once they wake up he can judge them and then perform there execution. Having the paladin ask if there is anything they have to say for there actions and having the paladin roll sense motive. Eventually in Wrath of the Righteous you can find a broken phylactery of faith and if the paladin can get that and repair it, that can help him to stay the course.
Wow thanks brad! Were did you find the Iomedae paladin code at?which sourcebook is it from?
I considered letting the player play a judge dred type role which seems to fit an Iomedae paladin fairly well. Redeption doesn't seem to be high on an iomedae paladins list though. I think with there HONOR and JUSTICE aspect this might be a good option for a medeival honor dual. A dual to the death to prove ones innocence or faith in the will of the gods. I'm not too sure an evil devil worshiping priest deserves such an honor though.
I guess that raises a good question. What are some imaganitive ideas for a paladin of iomedae to deliver a death sentance in and honorable and just way?
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The codes for paladins come in the Faiths of Purity. It has codes for Erastil, Iomedae, Sarenrae, Shylen, and Torag. I also think that there are paladins of Abadar but that is in Faiths of Balance.
For doing justice it is hard. My group had a funny issue. In the first chapter after getting back to the surface we captured a "crusader" that was killing citizens and looting. During one of the other encounters the "crusader" was able to escape. The paladin could not kill him because he surrendered, but none of us where happy he got away. I think I later had them find him dead, killed by demons as he did not have any gear. So he ended up dying in the end. I probably would have aloud his death but the paladin was trying to bring him to the authorities so either way is fine.
Duals are a good and bad idea. It very much puts at risk one character of the group to a potentially strong character. Trying to fight stuanton in chapter 2 in a dual could kill the paladin off. Once the group is able to use the spell zone of truth that can be a good way of judging people. Irabeth can help to as she is the highest ranking law officer in the city of Kenebres during the 1st chapter of the ap.
I don't think whether or not things ping on dectect evil should factor into the paladins moral choices at all. It's a really low level divination spell, and really easy to fool. And it takes the paladins own judgement out of the equation. In games I run, a paladin who thinks someone pinging on dectect evil means it's okay to kill them will be losing their powers quickly.
I disagree. Detect evil is a tool for a paladin. While it shouldn't be the ONLY factor in his decission making they should be free to use it as part of there judgment call. I think its important at lower level since DE was changed to only have higher level aligned npcs, clerics of evil dieties, or evil outsides to only ping in the first place. At level 1 if someone pings at all there probably not just organizing for a bake sale. Like I said it shouldn't be the only factor thoough. More like a peace of the evidence. As stated above though they player isn't killing anything that just pings, he took the evil cultists alive. But when you look at the evidence he was in the right to kill them. They were evil cultists, complete with unholy symbols, and they did try to kill him. With the theme of the ap and the location being a devil worshiping cleric in itself could be viewed as treason as well.