Crown Of Charima & Iesha Foxglove

[J Scot Shady]

I know this has been briefly touched on but the answer wasn't fully specific.

Can you use the Crown of Charisma to defeat Ieash Foxglove? The second ability is "Recharge this card to succeed at your Diplomacy check." Since this card has the magic trait and you are using it to make the check (defining it in my opinion, not modifying it), it should allow you to defeat her.

What does everyone else think?

[Tracker1]

The crown is played at a time when cards no longer add their traits to a check, so it will not work. In order for it to have worked it would've needed to be played during the determining which die you are using, but unfortunately the crown can only be played during the play cards/powers that affect the check step.

[Captain Bulldozer]

To add to what Tracker said, you can use the crown to succeed at the check itself, but Iesha will not count as defeated unless there was some other way the magic trait was added. So, for the purposes of taking damage, using the crown will prevent you from taking damage, but will not allow you to gain the benefit of her "when defeated" power.

Honestly, I'd still rather have the crown in my hand when she came up than not ;)

[AugMonthly]

I used the Crown of Charisma to beat Iesha Foxglove and I felt that it was valid. It's basically like using the Caltrops to defeat a monster, IMO. Because the Crown does have the Magic trait, I thought it should count. But I also had the Deathbane Shield in my hand (grants me the Magic trait) so that was my back-up Magic source.

[Bidmaron]

I thought the boards hAd proven that only Kyra could beat her because she has the only way to add Magic to a wisdom check (away from my game on iPhone so I might have the particulars screwed up but I know the conclusion), so unless the shield has some kind of ability to add the magic trait to a wisdom check (which would be highly bizarre) when you are not taking damage you did not legitimately defeat her.

[Cheez]

Great idea on at least having the crown absorb the damage for that pesky Iesha. That never even popped in my head. That nutbag cleaned our clock last game.

[kysmartman]

Again, you can "Defeat" her with Crown of Charisma so you don't take any damage, but you didn't actually Defeat her so you don't get the bonus of looking at a location deck. As was pointed out elsewhere, the overall bonus of defeating her is pretty pointless (you would have had to already chased The Skinsaw Man to the active character's location to benefit from that minus 3 or 5 if you find him in that location deck). So, you're really just trying to avoid losing your entire hand with Iesha which the Crown of Charisma helps do tremendously well.

[Captain Bulldozer]

AugMonthly wrote:

I used the Crown of Charisma to beat Iesha Foxglove and I felt that it was valid. It's basically like using the Caltrops to defeat a monster, IMO. Because the Crown does have the Magic trait, I thought it should count. But I also had the Deathbane Shield in my hand (grants me the Magic trait) so that was my back-up Magic source.

I'm sorry to say, but neither of those two cards would add the magic trait to the check, so it seems you played that wrong.

[h4ppy]

J Scot Shady wrote:

Since this card has the magic trait and you are using it to make the check (defining it in my opinion, not modifying it), it should allow you to defeat her.

I think this is where you've gone astray. Vic's clarified that cards you play to "auto-pass" an encounter are considered to be check modifiers (played in the "play cards/powers that affect the check" action) and so do NOT add their traits.

(I don't have Crown of Charisma to hand so can't check that it actually has the magic trait!)

[J Scot Shady]

Thanks Happy and everyone else. I couldn't find any thing that said when the autopasses were played. My wife won't like this but I'm still looking forward to this session.

[Captain Bulldozer]

h4ppy wrote:

J Scot Shady wrote:

Since this card has the magic trait and you are using it to make the check (defining it in my opinion, not modifying it), it should allow you to defeat her.

I think this is where you've gone astray. Vic's clarified that cards you play to "auto-pass" an encounter are considered to be check modifiers (played in the "play cards/powers that affect the check" action) and so do NOT add their traits.

(I don't have Crown of Charisma to hand so can't check that it actually has the magic trait!)

Crown of charisma does indeed have the magic trait, but you're 100% correct about it not adding its traits to a check because of when in the sequence it gets played. To be fair, though, the issues with traits still seem somewhat unclear to many people, and it might (at this point) be questionable as to why certain cards even certain traits... I imagine this is another one of those "it'll become more important in the future with new cards" situations, mostly in that future cards will likely have added immunities to a variety of traits (so far we haven't seen much of that).

[Flat the Impaler]

If Ezren explores and encounters->acquires the Crown of Charisma, the fact that it has the Magic trait would allow him to explore again, so there is currently a purpose for that trait.

[Captain Bulldozer]

Flat the Impaler wrote:

If Ezren explores and encounters->acquires the Crown of Charisma, the fact that it has the Magic trait would allow him to explore again, so there is currently a purpose for that trait.

That's a good point... Just now I double checked through the box, it actually does seem like many of the traits currently printed do have other cards that refer to them. Still, quite a few currently do not, though many of these are really more descriptors than anything (i.e. Halfling, hireling, accessory, object, etc.) Still, I expect some (or all) of these to be developed further in future releases.