I haven't played Burnt Offerings, so I can't help on any of the specifics of the adventure path but I'll see what general questions I can answer.
1. You would generally only award the explicitly stated treasure, unless it is specifically a random encounter whilst traveling. To save space these usually just have a table and don't go into specifics like treasure.
2. No, they usually would just drop their listed treasure.
3. No there isn't really any specific guidance on this. It does mention though that when building a PC at a higher level they should spend 25% on weapons, 25% on protective items, 25% on other magical items, 15% on disposable magic items and 10% on gold and normal equipment. You could always hold to something similar for loot obtained by the characters. This really is a matter of personal taste and something you get a feel for, it tends to vary from group to group.
4. It sounds as though the module doesn't offer a lot of treasure. I would have expected more since the AP that I'm running has far more treasure written into the encounters. You can always add some more in if it seems too low though. If you do, then I would recommend subtracted the value of scripted awards from the loot calculated for their level, otherwise they'll tend to drift over a bit.
I'll drop by later to type in my 2 cents
-Nearyn
Hi, I'm back. And I see I do not have to respond. Mkenner has already basically answered for me. Also he did so, before I posted my original post. I guess I should have read the entire thread :)
-Nearyn
So I used to use a point system for this, but I have found that it is FAR more rewarding to PCs to drop treasure for them to sell at half value. This highly encourages them to stick with the same characters.
Here is why:
XP and gold to level up to next
KEY:
To go from current level to next level:(total xp gained to hit next level/total gold gained if all encounters are CR [current level] encounters)_XP for current level encounter/gold awarded by current level encounter
Level 1:_(8,000_______/5,200)_______400___/260
Level 2:_(12,000______/11,000)______600___/550
Level 3:_(24,000______/24,000)______800___/800
Level 4:_(36,000______/34,500)______1200__/1150
Level 5:_(56,000______/54,250)______1600__/1550
Level 6:_(84,000______/70,000)______2400__/2000
Level 7:_(120,000_____/97,500)______3200__/2600
Level 8:_(180,000_____/125,625)_____4800__/3350
Level 9:_(240,000_____/159,375)_____6400__/4250
Level 10:(380,000_____/215,729)_____9600__/5450
Level 11:(500,000_____/273,437)_____12800_/7000
Level 12:(760,000_____/356,250)_____19200_/9000
Level 13:(1,020,000___/462,187)_____25600_/11600
Level 14:(1,520,000___/593,750)_____38400_/15000
Level 15:(2,040,000___/776,953)_____51200_/19500
Level 16:(3,160,000___/1,028,645)___76800_/25000
Level 17:(4,040,000___/1,262,500)___102400/32000
Level 18:(6,160,000___/1,644,270)___153600/41000
Level 19:(8,240,000___/2,132,421)___204800/53000
Starting gold for level 20 = 880,000gp.
Gold gained if leveled from 1 to 20 normally = 2,336,898gp
Gold gained if leveled from 1 to 20 normally and sold all items at 1/2 value = 1,168,449gp
As you can see it is FAR more profitable, even at half value, to have characters revived, or to play from low level to high.
You could say that this is the reason why creating a new character is a punishment: you lose gold overall. Depending on the level it is either a lot of gold or a little, and under a certain level you actually gain gold, but that doesn't last for long.
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Comment of admittedly limited use: keep your characters poor, the game is more fun that way.
I am not familiar with Burnt Offerings, but it sounds to me like most everything they have encountered so far is a straight up melee fight. Of course, a party with two barbarians and a fighter is going to clean house in any level-appropriate situation where they are up against a single, or only few opponents, in melee.
I would add a few combatants and flank them. And ranged attackers are going to help to increase challenge. You might adjust some melee encounters to allow some of the combatants to use ranged weapons before closing.
You could have the goblins throw rocks at the guy who has the reach weapon.
They are improvised weapons, so -4 to hit, but I would guess they do 1d3 points of lethal damage since that is what they do out of a sling if memory serves correctly.
Make the range the same as a dagger, 10-ft, and give them a -2 due to him being in the next range increment (20-ft), giving the goblins a grand total of
-6 to hit, (1d3+/-str mod/x2)
You could alternatively just assume that they have slings, darts, or javelins to throw at him.
1. When running an adventure path, do you ONLY award explicitly stated treasure, or do you determine random treasure as well for foes defeated?
Modules and APs list treasure for all scripted encounters. Random ones generally do not list treasure, and probably have little treasure or risk upsetting the WBL cart.
2. Does a monster with specific loot in an adventure path also drop regular treasure in addition to its listed treasure?
No.
3. I know you "buy" magic items from loot rewards (e.g., more items is less GP), but is there any specific guidance on how many items to buy in this way? There is a big difference between a PC getting a single minor magic item at level 2 vs 1,000 GP in cold hard cash.
My advice is to place usable magic items in a treasure drop, but leave a lot of cash equivalent so that stuff can be divvied evenly.
4. Using the loot tables and loot by level...
Here is where I get a bit lost. Conceptually, I know that you award treasure in such a way that the PCs have more or less the expected GP for their level (see #3). I get that it can balance out overall (no treasure when you fight the ooze, double the treasure when you beat the boss) but how I actually go about figuring out loot for an encounter is a challenge.
Example: The PCs so far have defeated:
Encounter A- 3 Goblin (CR 1/3) [CR 1]
Encounter B- 2 Goblins (CR 1/3) Goblin Chanter (CR 1/2) [CR 2]
Encounter C- 1 Goblin Commando (CR 1/2) Goblin Dog (CR 1) 3 Goblins (CR 1/2) [CR 2/3? Not listed in the book]
(These three encounters are scripted with no break in between)
Encounter D- 2 Skeletons (CR 1/3) [CR1? Not listed in the book]
The only treasure explicitly listed is one potion for both the commando and the chanter, their equipment, and 20 GP. That leaves 8 goblins, 2 skeletons (no treasure) and a dog who didn't drop any treasure. In the case of the goblins they appear to only have combat gear (and whatever "other" treasure is) but if it were standard treasure,I'm a bit baffled as to whether this was 2 total encounters or four. The PCs are expected to get 400GP per encounter, which means if each of these awarded that much they are 1,200GP behind where they should be. They only have a fight or two before they reach level 2, and they are certainly going to be behind the expected $1K per person at this rate.
If these are all scripted, then do not add any treasure. Either you missed reading their treasure listing, or the AP wants the party to be under wealth. Check for larger treasure drops in encounters soon to come up, and look for GM advice listed in the AP. This might ease your fears. The only real reason you should modify treasure listed, is if you are not running a standard party through the AP. For example, if you run six characters through an AP that expects four, you need to add half again the treasure, but also you need to bump up the encounter difficulty to account for more characters.
So far they have earned 2345 XP as a group. 2nd level is 2000 XP, so 4 characters need a total of 8000 XP assuming medium progression.
If they only have a fight or two before reaching 2nd level, they need to make up 71% of their XP in those fights. That is a pair of CR 6 to CR 7 fights. I think you are missing some encounters, since APL +5 and APL +6 are going to be TPKs. Go re-read and see if you are either giving out too much XP, missing GP, and/or missing encounters.
/cevah
Thanks for the thoughts guys.
ROUND TWO OF QUESTIONS:
My understanding of reach is that in threatens squares as shown in the following image.
Made your URL into a link for easy access.
If that understanding is correct, it means that there is no way for a five foot range combatant to get into striking distance without getting an attack on them (which is basically the point of reach). If this is the case, I would take that to mean encounters have to be designed in such a way where the PCs must be the aggressor (no waiting for the enemy to charge in and get AOO on them). One of the PCs has a reach weapon and combat reflexes, and at level 1 all of my melee monsters get splatted before they get within spitting distance.
Moving through threatening reach provokes an Attack of Opportunity [AoO], but only if 1) they are not Flat Footed, and 2) they can take an AoO.
At the beginning of combat, before a creature's initiative comes up, they are Flat Footed, and cannot make AoOs.
Creatures can usually only take at most one AoO, unless they have Combat Reflexes, or some other special feature. As such, only the first provoked AoO can actually provoke. This means that you can send in one character to eat the AoO, and the other characters are temporarily safe from AoO until the creature's turn, unless it gets more than one AoO.
On the same token, are there any considerations I should take for a heavy melee focused group at low levels? We have two barbarians, one fighter, and a wizard. Right now (level 1) anything with fewer than 3HD basically dies if a hit connects (2d6+6 [two hander strength]+3 [power attack]... even more if raging!). No concerns about people feeling useful or not- the wizard adds plenty in other ways and everyone contributes, but I am wondering if I need to adjust encounters in someway.
For example, the group has a CR2 encounter coming up against a boar as part of Burnt Offerings. The boar has only 18 HP which means it is very possible the encounter will be over when the first hit lands. Is this the expected way for combat to play out at low levels, or am I missing something/needing to make adjustments?
Thanks again!
There is a reason the term Rocket Tag has become popular. It all comes down to action economy. Four players verses one monster. As others have said, if the boar hits, it could take someone out. However, the boar dies easily verses a heavy hitter that hits, usually on round one.
/cevah
The only treasure explicitly listed is one potion for both the commando and the chanter, their equipment, and 20 GP. That leaves 8 goblins, 2 skeletons (no treasure) and a dog who didn't drop any treasure. In the case of the goblins they appear to only have combat gear (and whatever "other" treasure is) but if it were standard treasure,I'm a bit baffled as to whether this was 2 total encounters or four. The PCs are expected to get 400GP per encounter, which means if each of these awarded that much they are 1,200GP behind where they should be. They only have a fight or two before they reach level 2, and they are certainly going to be behind the expected $1K per person at this rate.
Usually, the APs (and other modules) will have some treasure found in rooms where there are no monsters/NPCs, or (more rarely) certain monsters/NPCs will have additional treasure beyond what they'd normally have for their CR. Both of these methods make up for low-treasure encounters, such as when facing skeletons and dogs.
Paizo tends to include 20-25% more treasure in their APs than the recommended guidelines, but there can be stretches of low treasure followed by one or two big hauls.
Burnt offerings and the rest of RotRL uses fast xp progression. Level 2 is 1300XP per character.
So far they have earned 2345 XP as a group. 2nd level is 2000 XP, so 4 characters need a total of 8000 XP assuming medium progression.
If they only have a fight or two before reaching 2nd level, they need to make up 71% of their XP in those fights. That is a pair of CR 6 to CR 7 fights. I think you are missing some encounters, since APL +5 and APL +6 are going to be TPKs. Go re-read and see if you are either giving out too much XP, missing GP, and/or missing encounters.
Given fast progression, you still need 2855 (55%) which gives a pair of between CR 4 and CR 5 encounters. Epic encounters are APL +3, and your encounters need to be at least that. I therefore think you are either leveling too soon, or you have missed some encounters.
/cevah
Hi Sehnder!
1. Negatory, there is a clause in the conjuration school that summoned (or called or transported ect) creatures must appear on something that can support them. Falling through the air doesn't work.
A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.
2. I don't believe there are rules for this. There are some rules on taking actions reducing your breath I believe. As a GM I'd allow dirty trick combat maneuver to accomplish this, reducing the breath they have remaining, but this is not RAW.
3. Your ruling sounds good to me. Unless a rogue were specifically looking for magical traps, using a mirror or something.
4. Defending against an assailant is hard to pin evil on. But, considering your dwarf easily could have had the perception and presence of mind to do non-lethal, it certainly isn't a good act. I wouldn't make a big deal of it, unless the dwarf seems to have some guilt issues that could be interesting to go into.
1. No, creatures must be summoned on a surface if they cannot fly. The key phrase is "Creatures cannot be summoned into an environment that cannot support them." This to avoid dropping whales on a monster's head. Summon an eagle instead. EDIT: OK, Beopere's quote is better.
2. Getting damaged doesn't make you lose your air, but fighting does. Full rules here.
3. I think you are correct about explosive runes. That's why they're nasty. A bit extreme for your PCs' level, isn't it?
4. I'm not touching this one except to say you may need to have a discussion about threat assessment before you start worrying about alignment.
1. No. It must be summoned into a space that can support it:
A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.
2. The "stunned" condition is pretty similar to someone having the air knocked out of them. The "Stunning Fist" feat is one way to accomplish that. Also, beating someone until they're unconscious would leave them to quickly drown.
3. The Perception check to notice explosive runes is DC 28. If the character succeeds on that check, they can avoid reading the rune.
4. The dwarf should probably have realized that attempting to disarm, trip, or at the very least deal nonlethal damage would be better choices in the situation. I wouldn't call it an evil act, but it's certainly not a good act.
However, if the dwarf has faced shapeshifters in the past, then his actions could possibly be justified.