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Hello.
Do these work together like it seems they do? I can't figure out what would actually detect them. Seems invis purge would negate, true seeing yes? But all perception checks to figure out where they are seem to fail? Seems unsure how they'd work together as 'detection' isn't a defined term.
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As I read it, detect spells and effects would fail to locate the bonded creature, as would effects such as true seeing and the like. Invisibility purge would work since it negates the greater invisibility spell and thus deactivates Undetectable. You could still make a Perception check to pinpoint the creature, as part of that check is sussing out the creature's effects on its environment, but you could never completely detect it.
It's really, really vague though, and I could see other GMs playing it differently.
Yes. Quite vague :(
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One of the vaguest powers written (and more than a little important to me, since I have a character who has a Legendary item with it).
It seems likely that "detected or scryed" applies specifically to magical effects like Detect Evil, Detect Magic and Scry. However that raises an oddity with See Invisibility and the rule term "by any method". So a strict RAW interpretation is a bit tricky.
I think each GM will have to decide for themselves between two options:
1) By Any Method. Any and all attempts to find the character will fail. Whether magic, mundane, or something completely different, the character cannot be detected (using dictionary, rather than rules term).
2) Detected or Scryed (aside note: isn't the past-tense "scried"?). No form of magical or supernatural means to locate the character function. Mundane methods still work, but the character is effectively immune to anything that will allow someone else to see or spy on him. Detect spells, See Invisibility, Scry, True Seeing, etc all fail to pierce the undetectability.
I favour the second one, since it allows Invisibility Purge and Perception to still be viable and doesn't turn the character into some sort of ultra-stealther.
There is a third option, I guess, which is that Detected or Scryed only applies to effects that include those terms, but as I mentioned earlier, that seems to clash with "by any method".
So, my concise FAQ candidate is this: Does the undetectable Legendary Item power prevent all means of locating the subject (including the Perception skill), all magical/supernatural means, or only detect and scry effects?
I would like a FAQ on this, because the strength of Undetectability drastically changes between the two interpretations.
To say that even mundane methods do not work is to say that swinging a large stick in your square will simply pass right through you, preventing detection. It also means that if you're hit with a spell, there won't be any grunts of pain or the like; all sound is muffled. In which case, does it also block blindsight? Tremorsense?
To me, Undetectable makes the most sense by stating that it blocks all magical methods of detection. Perhaps certain forms of blindsense/blindsight could be included in that. A specific entry may be included for things like Invisibility Purge to either allow or deny its effectiveness
I would like an official answer to this as well.
In the absence of one though, I've ruled at my table that the Undetectable Legendary power functions as a Mind Blank spell - which is functionally Chemlak's option 2. I may also throw in at a later time that it includes the effects of Augmented Mythic Invisibility or that the player may spend a Legendary (or Mythic) Power use to gain that effect.
What intrigues me is how Mythic Invisibility works, specifically the augmented version
The invisible target can't be detected with detect magic or other spells that detect magic auras.The invisibility can't be penetrated, revealed, or dispelled by spells of 2nd level or lower (such as see invisibility or glitterdust), though true seeing and dust of appearance can reveal the invisible target's presence.
Augmented (3rd): If you expend two uses of mythic power, the invisible target is undetectable by blindsense, blindsight, scent, and tremorsense.
To me, this feels like a fair interpretation of Undetectable. Invisibility is not cleared by lvl 2 and lower spells, and is not detectable by blindsense, blindsight, scent, and tremorsense.
I make this logical step because if it is possible in the first place to become undetectable in these ways, then it's not absurd to suggest that a magical item can do the same thing.
Links! LINKS!!! I have no context for the discussion!
Links! LINKS!!! I have no context for the discussion!
Yes, please link. Let's make a habit of linking to any rule/content we discuss. You'll get more help/comments that way, too.
Hello.
Do these work together like it seems they do? I can't figure out what would actually detect them. Seems invis purge would negate, true seeing yes? But all perception checks to figure out where they are seem to fail? Seems unsure how they'd work together as 'detection' isn't a defined term.
Seems pretty straight forward to me. Invis. purge isn't detecting, it's negating, so invis comes down. Perception checks only notice environmental changes (moved tea cup, etc.). Anything that targets the creature w/undetectable while hiding or obfuscating fails. Scry etc., fails. Glitterdust would fail, so would flour. Tracks in the snow, sand etc., no longer apply when obfuscating.
Undetectable is a horrendously powerful ability.
You can't stand there stabbing someone with only undetectable because you, as in the player are turning it off effectively by attacking and are not obfuscating. If you had greater invis, sure, they'd never see you etc. It's a power that magnifies all methods of obfuscating into the realm of the absurd. Each ability is still subject to certain rules. I.E., normal invis still drops on an attack. Stealth drops on an attack etc. It's more to make other people never find you, not to make all your stealthy skills = to g. invis.
edit - Also, undetectable allows you to stealth without failure ever for a "0" skill point investment. It doesn't matter how bad you are, if you roll stealth, you stealth no matter their perception.