Solid TWF sword-and-board fighter


Advice


I made The Dwarfiest Dwarf for the guide to the builds thread, and since it's pretty flexible, there's lots of ways to build it; it can handle a multitude of archetypes, and has 3 feats that are open (steel soul, master craftsman, craft magic arms/armor) to use better, though that's not to say that it cant be finagled with to free up more!

comments, ideas, and suggestions are all welcome, and if anyone finds any issues with my maths, please point them out so that i can correct them--i'm terrible at number wizardry.


I like it. I would like to see a variation that will take advantage of the features of the foehammer archetype, basically the trip and bullrush combat maneuvers.


with the three open feats and some finagling you could fit in improved bull rush (and peripherals) fairly painlessly, but with trip's prereq of combat expertise it might be a bit harder on that end.


Yes, this is my issue with trip. Then again, being able to trip effectively is a nice way of controling the enemy and keeping him from denying you full-attacks. It could be worth it even in a non-foehammer fighter.

Other than that, I would suggest fitting dazing assault at some lvl that you have a solid attack bonus. It is the best battlefield control I can think of, given that you cannot effectively use staggering/stunning critical with a longhammer.

Shatterspell is also a must when you have already taken its prereqs IMO. The fact that Foehammer gives a sunder bonus is just icing on the cake. To make the best use of it you will want to have Improved Sunder though.


i had completely forgotten shatterspell. that is indeed a great feat.

as for dazing assault i always considered it more a thing for AoE fighter builds--since throwing out lots of it at once helps deal with the accuracy hit and the fort save (which is generally a strong save for monsters, though most mooks will get shut down outright), though ther's room for it in the build.

with these and imp. sunder you could pull something like:

Feats/Class Choices:
FGT 1: power attack, two-weapon fighting
FGT 2: weapon focus (warhammer)
FGT 3: imp. shield bash
FGT 4: double slice, +1 into dex
FGT 5: imp. sunder
FGT 6: shield slam
FGT 7: lunge
FGT 8: imp. two-weapon fighting, +1 into dex
FGT 9: disruptive
FGT 10: spellbreaker
FGT 11: weapon specialization (warhammer)
FGT 12: shield master, +1 into dex
FGT 13: dazing assault
FGT 14: shatterspell
FGT 15: two-weapon rend
FGT 16: gtr. two-weapon fighting, +1 into dex
FGT 17: gtr. weapon focus (warhammer)
FGT 18: penetrating strike
FGT 19: gtr. weapon specialization (warhammer)
FGT 20: gtr. penetrating strike, +1 into cha

take the spell resistant ability instead of hardy (and free up steel soul)

though this is off the top of my head-you could swap imp. sunder to 11th to get weapon spec earlier or something.


AndIMustMask wrote:
take the spell resistant ability instead of hardy (and free up steel soul)

I'm not sure if Spell Resistant ever becomes better than Hardy/Steel Soul (especially with Glory of Old as an option).


true, but i'm not sure what other feat to squeeze out to make room in that case.


AndIMustMask wrote:
true, but i'm not sure what other feat to squeeze out to make room in that case.

IMO, double slice isn't worth it until later levels, and I'd take double slice over weapon spec/gtr weapon spec.


Actually, with the proposed build in the Guide above, the Dwarf only has a 22 Strength, which is a +6 bonus, meaning Double Slice only nets a +3 damage bonus. Dropping Greater Weapon Sepcilization, nets a +5 damage bonus (3 from Double Slice, 2 from Weapon Spec) and another Feat slot.

You shield enhancements remain unchanged, despite your Dwarf having Shield Master (as I mentioned before).

Dwarfiest Dwarf wrote:
shield - +5 bolstering (6) (36,000g) / +5 bashing defending (7) (98,000g) Spiked Light Mithral Quickdraw Shield (1,066g + 61,500g)

Is this because of the Defending property? You can only use the Defending property to add to your AC when you attack with it; and when you attack with it, the Shield gains an enhancement bonus as a weapon, equal to the enhancement bonus as a shield it has. One could argue that a +5 Shield/+1 Defending Shield becomes +5/+5 Defending when used to shield bash, and at that point you can allocate the +5 to AC. This effectively triples the useage of the shield bonus, as it can be used to double the enhancement bonus of the shield, or increases the deadliness of the shield bash.

If you agree, you could change the Shield to a +5 Bashing/+1 Defending Shield, and save yourself 64,000 gp.

I would make mention that this probably isn't the intention, but that seems to come up a lot when Shield Master comes into play, doesn't it? I'm thinking I should go ahead and make a FAQ thread for it.


on the shield i had updated the first instance of it, but not the second one in the possible build at the bottom. it has since been corrected.

Dark Archive

If you are going to go with Disruptive and Spellbreaker, you need Step Up to keep the caster from 5 footing out of your reach, especially with a non-reach weapon.

I am not sold on Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization for fighters - especially when it only applies to one weapon for a TWF build. Fighters get good bonuses to attack with Weapon Training - especially if they are pumping STR. Versatility, to me, is more important than attack/damage bonuses to one out of two weapons.

The Penetrating Strike line seems like a waste of two feats to me. If you REALLY need to bypass DR you should have the right weapon to bypass the DR, or drop your shield and switch to two-handing your hammer for higher damage on individual strikes.

After playing a dwarven cleave-based character for a couple of levels, I think there is merit for the Goblin Cleaver/Orc Hewer build. It is awesome at low levels, before you get iterative attacks and gives you a lot more options later when you have to move more than 5 feet before you attack. The problem is that this feat line adds 3-5 feats to your build (cleave, goblin cleaver and orc hewer, plus great cleave and/or cleaving finish).

My suggestion? Leave your DEX at 15 or 16 and count on a DEX belt (and later DEX/STR) to give you the 17 DEX you need for ITWF and Two_weapon Rend. Drop the weapon focus and weapon specializations (partially offset by boosting STR instead of DEX!) and pickup the cleave line of feats - and step up.

Something like this:

FGT 1: power attack, two-weapon fighting
FGT 2: cleave
FGT 3: imp. shield bash
FGT 4: Goblin Cleaver, +1 into str
FGT 5: Orc Hewer
FGT 6: shield slam
FGT 7: Finishing Cleave
FGT 8: imp. two-weapon fighting, +1 into str
FGT 9: imp. sunder
FGT 10: disruptive
FGT 11: spellbreaker
FGT 12: shield master, +1 into str
FGT 13: step up
FGT 14: shatterspell
FGT 15: two-weapon rend
FGT 16: dazing assault, +1 into str
FGT 17: Stand Still
FGT 18: following step
FGT 19: step up and strike
FGT 20: Double Slice, +1 into dex


dropping double slice so far hurts on damage somewhat, as does removing an attack via not going after greater TWF, and safer damage opportunities from lunge.

cleave builds work a bit better with reach weapons, i find, since it expands your available area of 'adjacent target' detection (especially with lunge), which means you could drop improved TWF/rend/double slice altogether to free up some feats since you wont be able to use both weapons at once (since one cant be used in melee, and the other doesn't have reach). it'd let you pick up combat reflexes too.

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