Mythic Transformative Familiar and Intelligent Item Powers

[Umbral Reaver]

So, I happened across Transformative Familiar. It looks like a lot of fun. Since my character's familiar is often employed in covert ops, I've been trying to find a way to reliably grant additional powers. This looks like the way to go.

Let's say Kitty can transform into a staff full of fun spells. Can Kitty use those spells (expending charges as normal)? What is a familiar's caster level?

I find lots of options for intelligent items to have extra powers, but maybe my tiredness is making me miss wherever it says they can use their own powers. And whether this includes base item powers in addition to powers specifically added as part of being intelligent.

And yes, I know having a wizard cohort instead would be thousands of times better and cheaper, but I'm not going to touch Leadership.

[Umbral Reaver]

No comment?

[LazarX]

Umbral Reaver wrote:

So, I happened across Transformative Familiar. It looks like a lot of fun. Since my character's familiar is often employed in covert ops, I've been trying to find a way to reliably grant additional powers. This looks like the way to go.

Let's say Kitty can transform into a staff full of fun spells. Can Kitty use those spells (expending charges as normal)? What is a familiar's caster level?

I'm going to say no on this. When Kitty is being Kitty it's not being the staff of fun spells. The power does not say that Kitty can cast those spells when not being a staff, nor that the staff can cast them on it's own. Kitty lives a double life of being a standard familliar or a standard magic item. The two halves don't cross.

[Umbral Reaver]

What I was looking for was whether an intelligent staff can cast its own spells, regardless whether it's also a familiar or not.

[Claxon]

I believe an intelligent item can and does cast its own spells (or SLA).

Now, whether or not this staff kitty is an intelligent item I have no idea as I haven't looked at the rules for such things.

[LazarX]

Umbral Reaver wrote:

What I was looking for was whether an intelligent staff can cast its own spells, regardless whether it's also a familiar or not.

On it's own, generally not. An item does have the ability to refuse it's wielder, or target it's magic on it's wielder if there is a conflict, but that's about all there is in the rules text I've seen.

[blahpers]

When in item form, the familiar is an intelligent magic item for all purposes and thus follows those rules. When in familiar form, the familiar is a familiar and does not have any of the properties of its item form.

An intelligent item can use its own abilities purchased using the intelligent item rules (examples: "Teleport", "Cast a single 0th-level spell at will"). As far as I know, the rules do not specify whether an intelligent item can invoke its own base magic item abilities, such as the spells crafted into a staff apart from its intelligent properties. It may be able to restrict the user from using base item powers, though.

A lot of this is going to be a GM interpretation thing. Intelligent magic items are essentially NPCs with even fewer ways to control them than animal companions, familiars, or even cohorts. As such, the GM is going to have to decide many of these problems.

I would definitely rule that the familiar cannot use any of its item abilities (intelligent powers or base magic item abilities) while it is in familiar form. While it is in item form, I would allow the familiar to activate its own intelligent item powers (just as any other intelligent magic item can do), but as for the base item abilities, it'd be on a case by case basis.

[Claxon]

blahpers wrote:

I would definitely rule that the familiar cannot use any of its item abilities (intelligent powers or base magic item abilities) while it is in familiar form. While it is in item form, I would allow the familiar to activate its own intelligent item powers (just as any other intelligent magic item can do), but as for the base item abilities, it'd be on a case by case basis.

I agree wholeheartedly here, if only because subverting the normal action economy by being having your item being able to cast an additional spell in a round a huge boost in power, even if it is expensive to do so.

[LazarX]

You have to be careful on such rulings. Otherwise you'll get the player who's going to try to up his action economy by having the item do all it's work for him in addition to him getting his other actions done.