No Plunder No Pay Seconday Success Condition?


GM Discussion

Shadow Lodge

Hi all, I just played through this scenario for the first time, thus it's likely one that I'll run in the upcoming months.

Now, about the secondary success condition:

Secondary Success Condition:
The PCs ensure that Caradoc Alazario survives to pay for his crimes in Egorian.

I was playing a lawful good character and all ready to return Caradoc to his prison cell, until one of the party members took the podium and made an extremely compelling argument. He reminded us that within that prison, the guards were using their ballistas for "target practice" on men being hung without any legal process, laughing about it, and generally not being a very "lawful" prison.

My character did feel that returning Caradoc, who we took efforts to safeguard and protect, shouldn't returned to a chaotic prison, and being of the Andoran faction, the appropriate thing to do was to bring Caradoc to our superiors and point out the mistreatment of prisoners that we witnessed, especially in light of the various things that came to light about Cheliax throughout the scenario.

Would this invalidate the secondary success condition? It seems like the best choice to make to be a truly good and noble Pathfinder. It satisfies the "ensure Caradoc survives", but is ambiguous about whether or not he will pay for his crimes in Egorian, as "Andoran management" may or may not fulfill the need to pay for crimes in Egorian.

Our GM did make a point of feeling hamstrung by the new secondary success conditions despite the player's impassioned plea about the "right course" of action.

What would be my ability to use GM discretion on this to give a party their second PP?

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Nope. You just took a Chelaxian criminal and gave him to Andoran, possible causing an international incident. Sooner or latter Cheliax will investigate into the scenario and will not appreciate the Pathfinder Society having caused such a scene. From the intro to the scenario, the Mayor of Egorian doesn't care too much how he gets to Egorian, just that he gets there, so he wouldn't care about the Pathfinder Society actually bringing Caradoc back. The Pathfinder Society is able to insert themselves into the situation, come out with the artifacts, and remove themselves without looking bad. Much better than causing an international incident.

Now is that the good thing to do? Maybe, maybe not. But it's interesting how what your character would do doesn't always align with what the Pathfinder Society wants done. They are not a good organization, nor do they always align themselves with what the factions want done. Sometimes, you're going to have to ask yourself if the character thinks that extra prestige is worth it over what your character thinks is right.

*points proudly to a Stolen Heir chronicle sheet with the Taldor faction mission checked off but only 1 prestige.*

Liberty's Edge 2/5

I agree with James, when ordered to do something, you didn't do it as called for by The Society. Because of this, you lost out on that prestige point.

The Society doesn't really have the resources to police the world, and causing an international incident over a single person can be disastrous, especially if The Society takes the brunt of it. Because of this single action, trust in the Pathfinder Society, it's agents, and the functions that it performs, can be called in to question.

How are the other kingdoms are going react when they find out that The Society circumvented the laws of another land?

It's tricky, I haven't lost any prestige because of something like this, but have come really, really close...

So, to answer your question, if the players don't meet the requirements for the second prestige point, then they shouldn't get it.

Shadow Lodge

It's an interesting secondary success condition.

I understand the Andoran faction mission is to actually destroy the siege weaponry of the prison, which I suppose is even a greater cause for an international incident than simply a prisoner going missing.

The player at a table made a good case that Caradoc would actually be regarded as an upstanding privateer among the Andorans, and that returning him to the prison would run counter to what an Andoran would likely want.

I could see a "soft read" of the new secondary success condition mostly being that Caradoc survives, and would still feel quite conflicted denying the PP to a player who gave serious consideration to the best choice for his character and faction.

This kind of feels like a scenario where the secondary success conditions are worse than the original faction missions, at least to certain factions?

(and the Cheliax faction mission was brilliant)

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