Zippykat |
I have seen one thread so far addressing this.
As a witches hex does not contain verbal somatic or material components, is the target aware of the hex being cast on them. To what extent are they aware? Do they know who cast the hex? Are they only aware that "something" tried to affect them?
Witch hexes do not cause AoO, but is there any indication they are casting a hex outside the description of the hex such as cackling madly for the Cackle hex or gesturing and speaking soothingly for a charm hex?
I have not seen any clarification for this and was hoping I could get some official word or more expansive reasoning.
DM_Blake |
The victim knows he is a victim if the hex lands - this is true of all magic unless it explicitly states that the victim is unaware of the effect. The victim even knows something happened if he makes his save, per the magic rules in the Core Rulebook.
So no matter what, the victim will be aware that something hostile happened, and if the hex works, he'll probably know exactly what is wrong with him.
As to knowing who did it, that is problematic. It is a standard action and the witch needs LOE to cast her hex, so there is presumably also LOS - the victim CAN see the witch using a standard action to do something and the victim does feel some effect - he could very well put two and two together and correctly deduce the origin of the effect.
Or not.
There don't seem to be any rules for this.
As for me, nothing is secret in Pathfinder combat unless it explicitly says so. Spellcasting has a visible effect, even if it's stilled/silent/no components - maybe it's only a momentary facial expression as the mage's eyes glaze over and he seems to be internally focused for a second or two. Something. Anything. If not, there is no way spellcasting could provoke, but it does, even stilled and silenced.
Likewise with a witch hex even though they don't provoke - maybe the witch is glaring malevolently at the victim as her lips move briefly in an invocation to the dark powers that fuel her magic. Something. Anything. Making them free to move about the land, casting spells (hexes) at will, impossible to detect or prevent or even notice when it happens, is too much outside of the game's basic infrastructure.
If the witch wants freedom to cast her hexes without being spotted, she should invest in that. Greater Invisibility is a good start - at least that way when the victim feels something, he won't be able to find the source.
kronovan |
I'd presume the sense motive DC on "Evil Eye" has to be pretty low.
The easiest DC would be a Hunch which is a Sense Motive DC20. As well, it takes 1 minute to use Sense Motive when used to gather any sort of information, so it's not exactly going to be effective in combat rounds.
The victim knows he is a victim if the hex lands - this is true of all magic unless it explicitly states that the victim is unaware of the effect.
The victim even knows something happened if he makes his save, per the magic rules in the Core Rulebook.
The victim would know that something happened, but their knowledge from an Evil Eye hex would be very limited as per the rules on saves in the CRB.
"Succeeding on a Saving Throw: A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack."An Evil Eye hex is a "mind-affecting effect" that causes the target to create the physical limitation on themselves. That's different than a spell like Ray of Enfeeblement that actually temporarily physically damages the vicitm. If the victim makes their save against an Evil Eye hex, they're not going to be aware of much outside of a tingling sensation or that they've been the target of some hostile force.
As to knowing who did it, that is problematic. It is a standard action and the witch needs LOE to cast her hex, so there is presumably also LOS - the victim CAN see the witch using a standard action to do something and the victim does feel some effect - he could very well put two and two together and correctly deduce the origin of the effect.
No where in the rules is it implied that having LOE to a target guarantees LOS from the target to the victim. To guarantee that Pathfinder would need character facing rules, which the system clearly does not. As well you can have LOE to a target in dark and foggy conditions in which the target can't even see.
IMO it's clear that as a supernatural ability that doesn't trigger an AoO, doesn't have any verbal or somatic components and can be made from 30', that Evil Eye can be hexed by a Witch without the target necessarily knowing who performed the deed. That's true whether the character makes the save against the hex or are successfully targeted by it.
Mendeth |
Imo, the evil eye should be visible, it looks like the witch is angry with you, her eyes look very angry, scary or evil. That being said, there's no need for the target to look at the witch, but if he so did, I presume it would feel similar to being the target of a non-verbal intimidate, with only a bit different results.
Samaranthae |
Hi i'm wondering about this in relation to specifically Evil Eye and Charm.
I'm playing a witch who's hex's are basically a wearing down of your will save form of seduction. Remember for each of these hex's the words, actions etc.etc are not stated as being one thing or another but the idea is.
Evil Eye- Stares deep into your eyes. You know the way that makes your throat dry up and your palms go clammy. You feel incredibly self concious etc.etc. -2 will save (all saves really but its the will to say no which we're eroding)
Charm- "hey handsome" yes that is the verbal component of the charm. Sometimes it's followed by "wanna buy a girl a drink?" but thats not the charm component that's just pure oppertunism.
So my query is that at some of the places where i play this. When the hexes start flying the NPC's start getting hostile. Either when the evil eye lands, doesnt land or if the NPC saves his charm save the GM moves the NPC's attitude in the opposite direction of what i'm aiming for.
So does anyone know of an errata or an offical ruling on this.
a- Can hexes be detected via a knowledge or a spellcraft or does the recipient just experience a tingling sensation.
b- Does someone passing a save or having a hex placed on them move for example from indifferent to unfriendly.
c- Would onlookers see something or just the target getting the "tingles"
Byakko |
There are no clear rules on this.
I would recommend using the guidance for spells (even though they're supernatural abilities) resulting in the target knowing you tried to do something "magical" to them, and with a spellcraft check, the nature of that attack.
If you don't want to play that way, it's fine. Just remember that choice when the PCs are on the receiving end in a crowded area. It's not so fun being told that you feel a "tingling sensation" but have no idea what's going on.