What weapons can be stored in an efficient quiver?

[Durinor]

The text of an efficient quiver reads:

This appears to be a typical arrow container capable of holding about 20 arrows. It has three distinct portions, each with a nondimensional space allowing it to store far more than would normally be possible.

The first and smallest one can contain up to 60 objects of the same general size and shape as an arrow. The second slightly longer compartment holds up to 18 objects of the same general size and shape As a javelin. The third and longest portion of the case contains as many as 6 objects of the same general size and shape as a bow (spears, staffs, or the like). Once the owner has filled it, the quiver can quickly produce any item she wishes that is within the quiver, as if from a regular quiver or scabbard. The efficient quiver weighs the same no matter what's placed inside it.

So my question is, what weapons would you consider to be the same general size and shape as arrows, javelins, spears, staves and bows?

Is a dagger the same general size and shape as an arrow? Is a rapier the same general size and shape as a javelin? A longsword a spear?

Would axes be ruled out because of the broad head?

Might it be easier to establish what weapons can't be stored in this very efficient quiver?

[LazarX]

1. No. 2. No. 3. yes.

It says pretty clear in the description what can be stored.

1. compartment will store bows or staves

2. will store javelins.

3. will store arrows. (not bolts or daggers.)

It's a quiver.. not a backpack. Not is it a snake that can distend it's opening to swallow battle axes. What's to be stored in it has to pass through the compartment openings as is. which means that bows stored in it have to be unstrung.

[Durinor]

Sorry but that is simply not true. It qualifies what can be carried with 'the same general size and shape' and in one case adds 'or the like' at the end.

The quiver is clearly not limited to arrows, bows, staves and spears.

[scadgrad]

A fine place for your Familiar to carry utility wands around. ;)

[Mythic Evil Lincoln]

My UMD-monkey bard uses it for:

Staves (bows)
Rods (javelins)
Wands (arrows)

...and it is SWEET.

[LazarX]

Durinor wrote:

Sorry but that is simply not true. It qualifies what can be carried with 'the same general size and shape' and in one case adds 'or the like' at the end.

The quiver is clearly not limited to arrows, bows, staves and spears.

Axes and Daggers or Longspears, are nowhere near the "general size and shape" of any of the three categories above. (short spears might be okay) Whatever you want to put in the quiver apparently has to fit in the compartment naturally.

[Mythic Evil Lincoln]

The obvious ruling is: could you fit x of the desired item in a container meant to hold x of the item described in the text?

Because we're talking about a container, after all.

You can't fit 60 handaxes in a quiver meant to hold 60 arrows.

You can fit 60 quills, or darts, or drumsticks in such a container.

[Artoo]

It's really up to your GM. Personally I would probably allow most 2 handed weapons in the largest pocket. One handed weapons in the middle pocket and light weapons and ammo in the smallest pocket.

[Durinor]

Well there is a certain amount of individual judgement involved, but I would respectfully suggest that a sword and a spear are the same general size and shape - long, thin and pointy.

Edit: This is a response to Lazar.

[Mythic Evil Lincoln]

You could say that they might hold light, normal, and two handed weapons.

This is really for the GM to decide. Including a table in the book would have been silly.

[eakratz]

Ultimately, it would be up to your GM, but I would allow this. (flavor considerations applied)

1st: arrows, bolts; I'd allow darts and shuriken but probably each would count as two arrows.

2nd: javelins, short spears, daggers, short swords, wands; pretty much anything along these lines

3rd: bows, spears, trident, staffs, long sword, rapier; anything long and slender up to the size of a long sword.

Things like axes, maces, crossbows; basically anyhing not long a slender would not fit.

Edit: trident might not work.

[Nox Aeterna]

eakratz wrote:

Ultimately, it would be up to your GM, but I would allow this. (flavor considerations applied)

1st: arrows, bolts; I'd allow darts and shuriken but probably each would count as two arrows.

2nd: javelins, short spears, daggers, short swords, wands; pretty much anything along these lines

3rd: bows, spears, trident, staffs, long sword, rapier; anything long and slender up to the size of a long sword.

Things like axes, maces, crossbows; basically anyhing not long a slender would not fit.

Why not a great sword? I mean it should not be longer than a spear or a trident.

[LazarX]

Nox Aeterna wrote:

Why not a great sword? I mean it should not be longer than a spear or a trident.

Lay a greatsword next to a staff or unstrung bow sometime. You'll see the major difference in shape.

[LazarX]

Mythic Evil Lincoln wrote:

The obvious ruling is: could you fit x of the desired item in a container meant to hold x of the item described in the text?

Because we're talking about a container, after all.

You can't fit 60 handaxes in a quiver meant to hold 60 arrows.

You can fit 60 quills, or darts, or drumsticks in such a container.

while I might allow certain variances on what could be put into the quiver, I would reserve the right to rule that you can't count on being able to instant draw them. If you drop darts into the quiver, they're going to fall to the bottom and the only way you're getting them out is by upending the container.

[Nox Aeterna]

LazarX wrote:

Nox Aeterna wrote:

Why not a great sword? I mean it should not be longer than a spear or a trident.

Lay a greatsword next to a staff or unstrung bow sometime. You'll see the major difference in shape.

The same can be said to a long sword or a trident.

The great sword would be bigger than a long sword , that is true , but i dont imagine it being longer than a trident or wider , therefore i dont see why to someone who thinks a trident is a valid option , why a great sword would be not.

I believe in something really similar to eakratz, but i add the great sword and maybe discuss other similar weapons.

(Ofc im not talking about the comics great sword where the guy got a freaking giant metal thing he calls a sword).

[eakratz]

Nox Aeterna wrote:

eakratz wrote:

Ultimately, it would be up to your GM, but I would allow this. (flavor considerations applied)

1st: arrows, bolts; I'd allow darts and shuriken but probably each would count as two arrows.

2nd: javelins, short spears, daggers, short swords, wands; pretty much anything along these lines

3rd: bows, spears, trident, staffs, long sword, rapier; anything long and slender up to the size of a long sword.

Things like axes, maces, crossbows; basically anyhing not long a slender would not fit.

Why not a great sword? I mean it should not be longer than a spear or a trident.

Pretty much "just because"; but if I where to pick a reason it would be weight. I figure there needs to be a cap somewhere. I might allow it to take 2 slots if I allowed it but the only time this has come up it was for my own player and it never really came up.

[Zhayne]

From the way I read it, the items have to be:
Much longer than they are wide or thick
Cylindrical in shape
Not have major protrusions

So any blade is out, axes are out, tridents are out, shuriken are out.

[Mythic Evil Lincoln]

Zhayne wrote:

From the way I read it, the items have to be:

Much longer than they are wide or thick
Cylindrical in shape
Not have major protrusions

So any blade is out, axes are out, tridents are out, shuriken are out.

I would add to these:

could it hold x of these things in the compartment in question? (60 arrows vs. 60 axes)

and

Is it shaped so that you can draw the end any of the objects out as though from a quiver. That last bit seems to be getting ignored.

Most swords would be denied by this criterion. However, a katana or nodachi with no hilt is arguably "bow shaped", and I'd allow any sword with no hilt to be stored in the bow/staff pouch.

[altontanglefoot]

Some of you seem to be forgetting two of the niftiest features of the Efficient Quiver:

PRD wrote:

Once the owner has filled it, the quiver can quickly produce any item she wishes that is within the quiver, as if from a regular quiver or scabbard.

So no, it doesn't have to be drawn out as though from a quiver. And no, you don't have to dig through the bottom or upend it to get the item you want. And yes, blades are allowed.

[Aelryinth]

You can put in Coin Poles.

Take a rod of 3' (javelin) or 6 (staff) size and hollow it out just big enough to stack coins into.

You can fit roughly ten coins per inch. So, 360 per short rod and 720 per long rod.
18x360 = 6,480 coins. 6 x 720 = another 4320. Almost 11 k in coins! Better then a bag of holding.

==Aelryinth

[Durinor]

Since composite bows retain their shape when unstrung and are more C shaped than l shaped, can they be stored?

[BigDTBone]

LazarX wrote:

Mythic Evil Lincoln wrote:

The obvious ruling is: could you fit x of the desired item in a container meant to hold x of the item described in the text?

Because we're talking about a container, after all.

You can't fit 60 handaxes in a quiver meant to hold 60 arrows.

You can fit 60 quills, or darts, or drumsticks in such a container.

while I might allow certain variances on what could be put into the quiver, I would reserve the right to rule that you can't count on being able to instant draw them. If you drop darts into the quiver, they're going to fall to the bottom and the only way you're getting them out is by upending the container.

Really? You would penalize someone who put darts (which, as ammo can be drawn as a free action even if they are stored in a cod piece) in an efficient quiver because the the "handy" magic doesn't work on short things? Wow.

[PSY850]

and now I'm envisioning a fighter type wearing one of these as an all in 1 golf bag of weapons. to me this cuts both ways, on one hand once you strap your armor on or if your happy enough to be able to sleep in your armor without penalty you grab one thing to grab all or at least most of your weapons and combat gear, on the other hand, getting surrounded/taken prisoner, it's one thing the bad guys can take away to take all the same stuff from you.

As to the question, I'd allow most weapons to fit in one of the sections as long as it isn't totally impossible to fit at least most of the way thru the opening.

Asta
PSY

[Havoq]

Durinor wrote:

Since composite bows retain their shape when unstrung and are more C shaped than l shaped, can they be stored?

Suspension of disbelief. RAI. Roll with it.

[Zhayne]

Havoq wrote:

Durinor wrote:

Since composite bows retain their shape when unstrung and are more C shaped than l shaped, can they be stored?

Suspension of disbelief. RAI. Roll with it.

Plus the item specifically says bows are permitted.

[Ross Byers]

Aelryinth wrote:

You can fit roughly ten coins per inch.

Citation needed. (Also, what's the diameter of a coin? A typical quarterstaff might not be wide enough.)

On the other hand, the real-life density of coin makes coins that are 50/pound something like the size of a dime and flimsy as heck. You could definitely stash a lot of those in a staff, but coins are generally pictured to be larger than that.

[Aelryinth]

Pictured, yes, but someone did the calculations, and gold coins are about the size of a penny, which is historically close to pieces of eight.

if you assume more then 10 to an inch, then coin-poles are even better, because the quiver has size limits, not weight limits.

as to the thickness...most quarterstaves are weapons and walking sticks, and avg 2-3 inches thick, thicker towards the top. You can definitely make one to fit coins without a problem. even if you were doing something the size of quarters, probably even dollar coins, it wouldn't be a problem.

==Aelryinth

[Samasboy1]

PSY850 wrote:

and now I'm envisioning a fighter type wearing one of these as an all in 1 golf bag of weapons.

That only just happened?

Ever since the introduction of DR that needed any of several different material I have seen characters with the "golf bag o' longswords". Like the beginning of 3.0 long ago.

[JF1081]

LazarX wrote:

Nox Aeterna wrote:

Why not a great sword? I mean it should not be longer than a spear or a trident.

Lay a greatsword next to a staff or unstrung bow sometime. You'll see the major difference in shape.

Spear: 5ft 6lbs

GreatSword: 5ft 8lbs

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/spear

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/great sword

[DungeonMastering.com]

There's a # of threads out there about this very issue; everywhere from EN World to giantitp to Yahoo Groups, of all places.

There's even a WotC one:
http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-general/threads/138368 1

...where some guy named 'aelryinth' is trying to plug staves that are hollowed out into coin holders. Maybe he's looking to sell some. ;)

The consensus from a lack of consensus? Up to your DM.

Honestly though, if this item was submitted as part of RPG Superstar it'd get slammed.

[Zwordsman]

..I want ot make a fighter or empty hand monk.. with the quiver full of random crap..

CASEY JONES BOOYA.

[EvilMinion]

So could you put more arrows in the sections for larger items?

If so, how many could you get into the javelin or staff sections?

I see many folks walking around with more then 60 arrows.

[Zhayne]

EvilMinion wrote:

So could you put more arrows in the sections for larger items?

No. It says 'approximately the same size and shape', not 'the same size or smaller'.

[Zhayne]

JF1081 wrote:

LazarX wrote:

Nox Aeterna wrote:

Why not a great sword? I mean it should not be longer than a spear or a trident.

Lay a greatsword next to a staff or unstrung bow sometime. You'll see the major difference in shape.

Spear: 5ft 6lbs

GreatSword: 5ft 8lbs

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/spear

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/great sword

And they're still not remotely the same shape, what's your point? One's flat, one's cylindrical.

[AndIMustMask]

Mythic Evil Lincoln wrote:

My UMD-monkey bard uses it for:

Staves (bows)
Rods (javelins)
Wands (arrows)

...and it is SWEET.

staves can be traded for scroll cases (up to 4 scrolls in each before retrieval action penalties start accruing) if you have all the rods you want.