A Greedy Paladin

[MrSin]

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

On that note, paladin refuses to ruin a joke by explaining it.

Falls.

Explains the joke.

Falls.

[Kobold Catgirl]

Wow. Who knew a paladin thread could contain tangential arguments?

Whoops, sarcasm. There goes my smite evil...

[Arssanguinus]

Is it possible we could avoid real world soapbox mode in this thread as well?

[Rynjin]

I would hope so because using phrases like "patriarchal objective" and "check your privilege" are pretty likely to set me off on a rant about 2 people would see before it was deleted.

[Annabel]

Rynjin wrote:

I would hope so because using phrases like "patriarchal objective" and "check your privilege" are pretty likely to set me off on a rant about 2 people would see before it was deleted.

I don't know...

People deflecting criticism by saying calling discussions of sexism, racism, heterosexism and cissexism as "soapbox mode" really tempts me to remind them to check their privilege. Which, for obvious reasons, shouldn't warrant deletion.

[Immortal Greed]

Paladin resists the patriarchy (and its patriarchal objectives).

Falls for going against the law, and his lawful good superiors.

[Kobold Catgirl]

Those poor paladins of Erastil...

[Rictras Shard]

Annabel wrote:

No... I understand the joke component of this. Not to completely sidetrack this thread, it's worth noting that even jokes communicate normative standards. Bergmann catalogs a number of ways that sexist beliefs are used in the generation of humor (this is discussed near the end of the article). Two such ways are from 1) Apparent sense or plausibility generated by sexist beliefs and 2) Hidden morals generated by sexist beliefs. Something simply being a joke doesn't discount sexist content (even if such content may have been unintended).

On the topic of this thread, my point wasn't to argue against the humor found in the joke (though my response was very "humorless feminist"). I just don't think these paradoxes are nearly as apparent as people think. If there is an incongruity present, that is often a sign that there is...

This is a good topic for discussion, but I think there are better forums to discuss it in than one designed for a game.

[Immortal Greed]

Paladin tries to remove sexism from the church. The avatar of the sexist deity says "excuse me, are you telling our god what is right and good?"

Paladin falls.

[Kobold Catgirl]

Paladin loses his balance on the soapbox.

Paladin falls.

[Immortal Greed]

Paladin with a reach weapon backs up to some stairs.

Paladin falls.

[MrSin]

Paladin tries to make a balance check in full plate.

Paladin falls. Pretty far too!

[Immortal Greed]

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Those poor paladins of Erastil...

Paladin can't tow the line.

Paladin Falls (and is dragged).

[Arssanguinus]

Paladin fumbles, falls.

[Kobold Catgirl]

Summers ends.

Falls.

No regrets! I have no regrets!

[MrSin]

Rolling CMB! Trip: 1d20 + 11 ⇒ (8) + 11 = 19

Falls!

[Arssanguinus]

Water over a cliff. Paladin Falls.

[Immortal Greed]

*Adds paladin falls as a site to my world*

[magnuskn]

Does this thread have a purpose anymore?

[BillyGoat]

magnuskn wrote:

Does this thread have a purpose anymore?

Giving a home to jokes poking at over-enforcement of what can be turned into an impossible-to-follow code of conduct until the next thread on Paladins is spawned.

[Immortal Greed]

Yes, that.

When I retire, I want to start paladin threads.

[Kobold Catgirl]

How many paladins does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
None. The paladins can't make it onto the stepping stool without falling.

[The black raven]

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Those poor paladins of Erastil...

Good Sir Felix Einen, devoted Paladin of Erastil, would let you know that though each gender has its clearly defined roles, there is no such thing as absolute authority of male over female in his view of the world.

For all matters concerning the hearth and home, he fully defers to his wife and fears her fiery temper. For matters of battle and death, he takes the lead and charges to the front of the fight.

As far as he knows, this arrangement suits his wife perfectly.

[knightnday]

Rynjin wrote:

I would hope so because using phrases like "patriarchal objective" and "check your privilege" are pretty likely to set me off on a rant about 2 people would see before it was deleted.

haven't we had at least a few threads closed over this and the various *isms topics?

As far as the original topic goes, for my game at least the code varies by God and Orders so it would be hard to definitively say whether the paladin broke anything.

[Rynjin]

knightnday wrote:

haven't we had at least a few threads closed over this and the various *isms topics?

Yes, we have.

[Redjack_rose]

^_^ Serious post, even if a few days late.

If it were my character, I wouldn't find that acceptable behavior. I tend to play my paladins exceptionally honest (except for some lies of omission) even when dealing with bad guys (evil ones too!) The way I see it, the Paladin's cause is noble (in their eyes) and they have no reason to lie (even to gain an "advantage). Mine don't try and convince the bad guy they're there to sell cookies (etc...) but rather make their intentions clear either via words or (more commonly...) actions!

I'd like to note that the Paladin will often take a back burner approach when others are committing less honorable actions (justified by it is not their place to judge/dictate their companions behavior, that is for the person and their god to decide), only stepping in if the person enters a clearly -evil- action (such as torture, and in some cases, robbery. Other's seem to call that looting...)

In this particular case, I'd give the player a warning. Their paladin deceived decent folk for his own benefit, even threatening not to common to the aid of those he's duty bound to assist (presumably). Paladin code or not, that's a very dishonest and dishonorable act.

[Calybos1]

There are no bad paladins; just bad GMs.

OK, that's a huge exaggeration... but seriously, a lot of GMs seem to be hung up on paladin hate and actively trying to cook up ways to make a paladin fall. And one of the most common tactics is grossly distorting the meaning of the paladin code in order to bring down legitimate heroes, rather than to guide and correct straying or clueless players who don't understand heroic behavior.

That's bad GMing right there.