RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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Alchemists can craft mundane alchemical items (anything that has a Craft DC listed). There are dozens and dozens listed in Ultimate Equipment and the Dungeoneer's Handbook.
You don't gain any benefits for potions, but of course the extracts are like free potions every day (that are even faster to drink)!
Vivisectionist is not legal. I don't think there are any other archetypes that trade away bombs, but there are a few that give reduced bomb damage, if you don't plan on using them much. But of course, having bombs available is always good for the inevitable swarms...
Venture-Captain, Germany—Hamburg
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I don't think there are any other archetypes that trade away bombs
That's correct. The Vivisectionist is the only archetype that completely replaces bombs.
And I suppose that's the reason they banned it (so if there was another archetype that replaces bombs, it would be banned as well). Since the alchemist gets "Extra Bombs" instead of "Brew Potion" in PFS, taking away the bombs would create a few problems on how to handle "Extra bombs" (would the feat just do nothing or give the alchemist 2 bombs per day?).
I was sure it was because vivisectionist was dangerously strong. Couldn't they just give something else for those? Like 1 extra extract of max spell level -1 per day?
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Hamburg
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I was sure it was because vivisectionist was dangerously strong.
I don't think the Vivisectionist ist overly strong. Not any more than a well-built rogue. But that's just my opinion.
After all, he gives up his bombs, which are pretty strong, too.Well there is also the problem that the vivisectionist acquires his skills taking living creatures (vivi-) and cutting them apart (-section) while still alive to see what makes them work.
I don't see a problem there. Everybody could take levels in Profession (vivisectionist), Craft (taxidermy), or something similar, and that wouldn't make their character illegal ;)
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taxidermy is usually done after you are dead. different issue.
with vivisection, you are keeping them alive as you are cutting them up. Thats pretty evil. You can justify it if you really work at it. But generaly it is going to wind up being evil.
you just defined surgery as evil.
Presumably alchemists have access to the good anesthetic...
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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since there doesn't seem to be modern anestetics in this system, and since the vivisectionist is taking apart healthy individuals to see what makes them work, not taking apart sick ones to make them better, and since pathfinder doesn't have the level of technology needed for proper minimal damage surgery, yeah, yeah I am.
Now you could say my vivisectionist works with a Chiurgeon (I think that is the alchemist archtype that gets basically modern anesthetic) and a Druid (so that he can get the willing participation of the animals he works on, and so that he can heal them when he's done.) and he uses his knowledge to treat the ills others can't treat.
In otherwords, you can justify what he is doing.
But since most alchemists don't gain enhanced healing powers from what they are doing, they can't cure the sick any better than a traditional pathfinder healer (they use int instead of wis, but they aren't better) they gain skill at killing people. That says, no, for the most part they aren't using their skills to make people better.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Hamburg
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since there doesn't seem to be modern anestetics in this system, and since the vivisectionist is taking apart healthy individuals to see what makes them work, not taking apart sick ones to make them better
That's what research actually looked like for a long time. And before their work was accepted as non-heretical, those scientists dug up corpses from the graveyard in the middle of the night. And they were not evil, they just wanted to get a better understanding of anatomy.
Also, in those days, normal surgery was done without any anaesthetics, they just took a saw and hoped they finished cutting off damaged limbs fast enough so the patient wouldn't die from shock and blood loss.
Also not evil.
What I'm saying here is that, although the methods are very unpleasant for the "victim", the intentions of a vivisectionist needn't be evil at all.
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What I'm saying here is that, although the methods are very unpleasant for the "victim", the intentions of a vivisectionist needn't be evil at all.
Unlike a chirurgeon, a vivisectionist's goals are not related to healing, but rather to experimentation and knowledge that most people would consider evil.
The archetype itself calls itself out as something that most people would consider evil.
If you wish to do your cutting/healing for betterment, try the Chirurgeon archetype maybe?
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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What I'm saying here is that, although the methods are very unpleasant for the "victim", the intentions of a vivisectionist needn't be evil at all.
Need not be, but usually are.
Let me counter with an example from an assassin.
Yes, he takes money for his kills, but only to discourage people from using his services frivolously. Taking a life is a serious business, and if you are not willing to give up something to see someone dead, you either don't need his services badly enough, or you are not worthy of his services. He still won't take the job unless he is convinced it is in a good cause.
Such an assassin could even be considered good, he targets evil people and only takes in payment what the people he liberates can afford.
The archtype of the moral assassin is all through genre fiction. But PFS doesn't allow assassins don't fit the flavor PFS leadership wants in the game.
Same deal with vivisectionists.
(Though someone was saying PFS auctioned off a unique boon that lets one person play on assassin, so maybe there might be a rare vivisectionist in PFS at some point.)