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Something came up in a game and there were essentially three different takes on it; I was looking for clarification.
A tiefling was killed by a Mohrg. The Mohrg has an ability that states: Humanoid creatures killed by a mohrg rise immediately as fast zombies under the mohrg's control.
Traditionally Tieflings are Outsiders (native) not humanoid, so that led to opinion 1: The tiefling does not get turned into a zombie.
But there is the FAQ that says tieflings are half human, which led to the second opinion: Tieflings are humanoids for the purpose of PFS.
And there is the line in Outsider native that says "An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be." That led to the third opinion that being turned undead is close enough to being raised, reincarnated, and resurrected that it should count.
I would love some official clarification, but I would be happy with anyone's insight or links. I searched the boards for a while and couldn't find anything official.
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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I'm not official, but I know how I'd rule: "humanoid" refers to the type of creature. That word doesn't appear on the type line for tieflings, therefore they are not humanoid.
The raising, reincarnating, and resurrecting clause refers to the "native" part, giving a tiefling a soul that will return to its home plane if given the chance to after death. Nothing about that makes them humanoid.
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Option One is mechanically correct. A Tiefling is an Outsider (Native) and not subject to effects that only affect Humanoids any more than an Abberation or a Dragon would be.
Option Two is mechanically wrong. Tieflings are not "half human" in the traditional sense. The term "half human" is meant to restrict them to medium humanoid (shape, not Type) creatures with Human and Outsider ancestry. They are, mechanically, for all purposes, outsiders with the Native subtype.
Option Three is also mechanically wrong. There is nothing stopping a tiefling or aasimar from being animated as an undead. Most corporeal creatures can be made into undead. But, because the specific mechanic of a Mohrg specifies Humanoids, it doesn't work on non-Humanoids.
All the responces so far seem correct, Tieflings should be immune to Humanoid-targetting effects like this.
On the flip side, Tieflings miss out on things like Enlarge/Reduce Person,
and most Tieflings are pretty easy to spot especially if not disguised, and may draw extra attention/violence.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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I was of the same mindset on this one, but I was the only one at my table. A difference of opinion that bumped the cost of my raise dead up to a resurrection.
Go see your coordinator and get it fixed. They can, and will, reverse mistakes like this.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Unfortunately, it WAS the coordinator that ruled that way. Sorry for not backing you up on this Sitri, I was distracted at the time.
Well, then he SHOULD fix it, shouldn't he? d-:
Edit: Assuming TriOmegaZero isn't your coordinator, I suppose, it is merely a matter of changing the gp spent to get you back from dead. Dead is still dead, you just had a little extra fun as a fast zombie that you shouldn't have had. But the money expense can be fixed, and I don't know a lot of people who will outright refuse to correct a mistake they made after it's pointed out to them (nicely, of course). If he does, there is always the next step up.
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Thank you all for the input. The character is level 11 now, so pretty close to retirement anyways (hopefully before he ever needs to spend that extra PP) but I thought it was worth finding out for certain because I could see this having some pretty big ramifications for other characters, especially if opinion 2 from above was right.
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Having worked with, interviewed, and dissected several tieflings and aasimars over my long career with the Arcane Research Society, I have found that most of them are actually quite biologically similar to the human parent. In fact, many are much less than half outsider, the celestial or fiendish infusion to their lineages often tracing back several generations of seemingly normal human specimens, resulting suddenly with the very dominant outsider traits in the tiefling or aasimar. Such beings are merely "plane touched", showing little outward sign of extraplanar heritage.
That said, such beings aremortal, with souls, and I have personally raised such creatures as undead without complication. In earlier times, before taxonomists developed the "native outsider" moniker, such creatures were classified under their original type (humanoid), reserving the "outsider' classification for true halfbloods like cambions and alu-fiends. The debate and speculation continues.
My hypothesis is that tieflings and aasimar would in fact be changed by greater undead like morghs, owing to their largely human content. I move that the "outsider, native" definition be expanded to include that such creatures- or perhaps better to add "human blood" as a racial trait for aasimar and tieflings (as with half-orcs and half-elves) if they remain under the outsider heading so that their humanoid heritage is accounted for. More experiments are needed.
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Having worked with, interviewed, and dissected several tieflings and aasimars over my long career with the Arcane Research Society, I have found that most of them are actually quite biologically similar to the human parent. In fact, many are much less than half outsider, the celestial or fiendish infusion to their lineages often tracing back several generations of seemingly normal human specimens, resulting suddenly with the very dominant outsider traits in the tiefling or aasimar. Such beings are merely "plane touched", showing little outward sign of extraplanar heritage.
That said, such beings aremortal, with souls, and I have personally raised such creatures as undead without complication. In earlier times, before taxonomists developed the "native outsider" moniker, such creatures were classified under their original type (humanoid), reserving the "outsider' classification for true halfbloods like cambions and alu-fiends. The debate and speculation continues.
My hypothesis is that tieflings and aasimar should(?) in fact be changed by greater undead like morghs, owing to their largely human content. I move that the "outsider, native" definition be expanded to include that such creatures- or perhaps better to add "human blood" as a racial trait for aasimar and tieflings (as with half-orcs and half-elves) if they remain under the outsider heading so that their humanoid heritage is accounted for. More experiments are needed.
Thank you nosferatu favoring sage. If I am reading you right, you are saying tieflings and aasimar should be affected by things as humanoids. I am not in disagreement with you, but I do think this is a very major change that affects several spells and abilities if it were to happen.
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The pleasure of enlightenment (if any) was all mine, sir. Do not let my "condition" unnerve you- I'm neither dead nor undead yet!
Yes sir, in short I have found that the plane-touched share more in common with humanity in matters of the soul and its interaction with their material bodies than they do with their often distant outsider relations.
Outsiders do not have a distinguishment betwixt body and soul lest they form a temporary physical form via summoning. It is this, in my opinion, that causes complications with raising slain true outsiders, and allows summoned creatures to be "slain" off their home plane without lasting harm. Our tiefling and aasimar companions do not experience these same issues, all but verifying my theory outright.