
fleamo |
Hey all. Pretty new to the game, but I've played a few solo scenarios, and a two player scenario, and I'm starting to get a handle on the strategy.
I've been writing down questions as they come up. Most are easily answered by checking the manual, but I have a bunch that I haven't found answers to, OR they're higher-level strategy type questions. I tried to searcht he forum to see if they've been answered already, but there are just so many threads.
Here goes nothing!
Take Amiri's recommended starter, for example. I think it has a Quarterstaff, Shortsword, and a Longsword in it by default. I can understand why cards like quarterstaff exist in the GAME (lower DC, no proficiency required), but as far as I can tell it's just objectively WORSE than Longsword for her. So, is there any reason you'd want to include these cards in your starter deck? The only reasons I can think of are the attack type/trait (Shortsword = piercing, Longsword = slashing) or MAYBE wanting to give away an "easy to use" card to an ally (like Quarterstaff to Lini)
Which brings me to another question:
I'm not super familiar with all the monster types, so bear with me for my crummy analogy (I'm going to make some stuff up). Say you're Seoni, who starts with only 3 spell slots in her deck. For some reason, you've got them all filled with Force Missile. Throughout your adventures, you come across a bunch of non-basic spells. For the sake of simplicity, let's say they're all Acid Arrow. Acid Arrow is a pretty decent functional replacement for Force Missile.
So, you're playing along, Acid Arrowing all the bad dudes. When suddenly, you start a scenario with a lot of... oh, I don't know... Amorphous Blob henchmen. And Amorphous Blobs are immune to the Acid trait. No big deal. You can easily swap some Force Missiles back in because they're basic. But what happens to your Acid Arrows? Because they're non-basic, once they're out of your deck, are they banished back to the box?
I'd make the D&D analogy of KNOWING a spell vs. having the spell PREPARED. Once you learn a spell, you never UN-learn it. Sure, you might not have it prepared when you really need it, and that could suck, but at least it's always there as an option the next time you prepare spells.
The same argument could be said for items or weapons: if you own a +1 Mace, and you find a +2 Mace, you can leave the +1 Mace at home... you can't use it on your current adventure, but should you somehow LOSE your +2 Mace, you've got a backup. It's like POSESSING vs EQUIPPING an item.
What happens to non-basic cards you’ve acquired when they’re not in your deck?
Again, I’m still pretty new to the game, but why should I care about movement spells? Like, tactically, how can I make use of a spell like Levitate? My girlfriend and I were playing as Amiri and Lem. She has a power that lets her move at the end of her turn, and Lem’s recommended starter included Levitate. We never used Amiri’s power, and once I had Levitate in my hand, I ended up discarding it to get another spell back using Lem’s power. I’m sure there’s a situation that we haven’t come across yet, but can someone explain why I should care about movement enhancing abilities?
As far as I’ve seen, every spell in the Base Set can be recharged. The highest DC is 14, I think, on Detect Magic. But, Charm Person doesn’t have a recharge check. In fact, it doesn’t even have a Recharge section on the card. Even items that can’t be recharged usually say “Recharge: None”. So what’s the deal with this card? Misprint, or is it just that powerful?
Many (most?) non-basic cards have the Elite trait. Just wondering what it’s for. Haven’t come across anything that references it yet.
I’m pretty sure you can’t discard another blessing, or have another player activate a power to boost your result after you’ve already rolled/failed a check. I think Luckstone can do it? Are there any other ways?
Pretty sure the rules said yes, but I think they said something like “shuffle INTO the deck”. Just wanted to double check on this.
Again, my guess is yes. You have to somehow randomize the location of the Villain/Blessing in the deck. But, if you had someone at another location Spyglassing/Augurying etc., you’re going to mess with their results. That would be annoying :(

h4ppy |

Some great, intelligently thought through questions! Lets see if I can help shed some light for you...
A1) As far as I understand it's for two reasons... the first is thematic and the second is to enable any six of the listed decks to be able to be built at once. Feel free to swap out basic cards you don't want with others that you do!
A2) The traits are important. My guess is that there are going to be banes coming soon that are resistant/immune to some types but to which Acid is more dangerous.
A3) No, you cannot bank any cards. The only cards you can carry from one scenario to the next are the ones you're allowed to keep as part of your deck build. Makes for some interesting choices for you :)
If you lose one of your cards during a scenario you then need to replace it with something else you found during that scenario. If you don't have enough of a certain card type then (and only then) you can 'go back to the box' to find a card of that type.
Any cards you acquire must, at the end of the scenario, either be put into one of the characters' decks or put back into the box.
A4) It's for you to find a use for Levitate! I don't use it much myself. The only use I've found is to move a healer (or somebody wounded) so they can be cured without taking up an actual move action.
A5) It's super-powerful so there's no recharge. Effectively you swap the spell card for an ally, once per scenario. If you could recharge it then you could end up with lots and lots of cards in your deck!
A6) Read the card for the Rise of the Runelords Adventure Path. It says that there's a point in the AP where you start removing elite cards from the game.
A6-and-a-half) The only way you can boost a check after your roll (so far) is the Luckstone. Some weapons also allow you to re-roll your dice if you fail, but you cannot add to or change the dice pool before the re-roll happens.
A7) Yes. You shuffle the undefeated bane back into the location deck unless it says otherwise. Note that evaded banes also get shuffled in, even in the Woods! Also note that summoned banes go back to the box, not to the location deck.
A8) You shuffle every deck that had a card added to it. Any temporarily closed locations would not be shuffled. This messes with Spyglass/Augury - but that's what you get with a dastardly villain on the loose!
I hope that helps!

Dave Riley |

The "evaded bane in the Woods" definitely caught me the first time. We kind of just played as if Merisiel could completely nullify that entire deck. That interpretation being stupid and unfair only struck is in retrospect.
In our defense, I think that was our second game.
Another use of the additional move is to put two people in the same location so they can share an item without wasting a turn.
Also, though even more situational, you can move someone after they've closed a location, so they're prepared to close a different location, should someone find the villain.

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H4ppy answered most of your question, so I've just got two things to add.
First, you obviously missed the FAQ that says the 14 DC to recharge Detect Magic is a typo. That should be 4. Recharging that thing over and over is part of what makes it so useful.
Second, about movement and levitate - they matter a lot more with a larger group. But even in a two player group, there are situations where they can be handy.
For instance, in your example of Lem and Amiri working together, perhaps Amiri needs a heal, and Lem is at a different location with Cure and Levitate in his hand, but he wants to explore his current location that turn instead of moving to heal her. So he explores his current location, then uses Levitate to move to Amiri's location, so he can Cure her before his next turn, without her having to leave her location.
Or in a situation where Amiri closes a location, leaving exactly two open locations left, with Lem at one of them. At the end of her turn, Amiri can move at the end of her turn to the other open location, just to be prepared to temporarily close it if Lem should happen to find the villain at the other one on his turn.
But really, in a one or two character group, I wouldn't bother including Levitate in your starting deck.

fleamo |
First, you obviously missed the FAQ that says the 14 DC to recharge Detect Magic is a typo. That should be 4. Recharging that thing over and over is part of what makes it so useful.
Aww nuts. I thought it was strange that it was easy to acquire, but hard to recharge. I had dreamed up some janky little combo where Lem would fail his recharge on Detect, but then swap it back into his hand using his power to circumvent the high recharge check.
Looks like that won't be necessary :(

agraham2410 |

There are times when you want to move out of sequence as I have found out to my cost. For instance...
1 You cast a spell and find a bane that will hit everyone in your location or everyone who is in an open location. (Run away, run away)
2 When you have one character with blessings and a charactor at another location who desperatly needs to explore again (The clock is always ticking)
3 You need to get a support charactor to a location in a hurry.
4 You need to get a charactor to a location to temporaly close it when you have the villin in your sights.
5 You can only give a card at the start of your turn before you move so moving at the end of your turn lets you pass on something useful to another charactor.
Of course you might not run into any of those situations but I have already. Have fun

OberonViking |

I think that some of the not-so-good cards are simply situational, and are included in starter decks so that you start to get to know them. I'd include potions here.
The Quarterstaff for Amiri is probably more about being able to create six starter decks, but it also adds to the feeling of progression which is one of the great aspects of this game. One of my players said it like a Collectable Card Game, but you have to earn the new cards not just buy them.

fleamo |
Sort of related, but can you modify your deck with basic cards at the beginning of ANY scenario/adventure/any time you're not ACTUALLY playing, or just when you create a new character?
ADDENDUM: Levitate might be a good example. Doesn't seem useful right now because we've only been playing with 2 people, but we want to get a bigger game going using these characters. Can I swap Levitate in and out freely?

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Technically, no. You rebuild your character deck between scenarios using the cards that your party already has. If you have enough cards to make all the character decks, then you can't go back to the box to get new ones. If you don't have enough of a particular type to fill everyone's decks, then you can go to the box to pick out a basic card.
But people have talked about this in the past here on the forums, and allowing basic cards to be traded in from the box between scenarios is a popular house rule.

fleamo |
Ouch.
I think we'll implement that house-rule. I also don't think it's really fair to shoehorn new players with the starter deck, and then not give them a way out. I know they could build their own deck from scratch, but if you've never played before, you have no idea why a card may or may not be good.

OberonViking |

I've found that in practice it works well, and feels like RPG. This is the best equipment I could afford that was available.
At the end of the scenario we rebuild our decks. Characters gets first dibs on cards they acquired, but we always have plenty of discussion as to what card should go in what deck. Sometimes there is even some altruistic sharing. We end up with a pile of cards in the middle that anyone can choose from.
As for trading from the box, we are out adventuring - there is no shop/box on hand to trade with... Make do both what you've got.
Then you get to the Local Heroes scenario and your deck gets a lot better.

RemiBureau |
Seelah is currently "stuck" with an arcane spell because Ezren found a bunch of those, and no divine spells, and she just got an additionnal spell card after Burnt Offerings.
We've decided that unless a spell was especially good for Ezren next game, we would not try to acquire any of them, and have Seelah cast the arcane spell so she banishes it after. If we manage to do it, she'll be able to pick a basic Divine spell... a lot of work to play by the rules!

Oroniss |

As a quick note on Amiri's movement power and on levitate. Another use that we came across is to avoid unpleasant start of turn effects on locations. The Mountain Peak forces you to make a check at the start of the turn or bury a card. Another location (Guard Tower iirc) forces you to fight a bandit at the start of each turn. I use Amiri to explore those locations since she can move there, explore, then move somewhere else at the end of her turn. Levitate can do the same, albeit only once each time you cast it.
Moving to trade cards or heal while still exploring where you want are the main uses we have found for them.
They are somewhat situational though and I tend to replace levitate pretty early on for this reason. I don't mind if I acquire one part way through a game though.

fleamo |
As a quick note on Amiri's movement power and on levitate. Another use that we came across is to avoid unpleasant start of turn effects on locations. The Mountain Peak forces you to make a check at the start of the turn or bury a card. Another location (Guard Tower iirc) forces you to fight a bandit at the start of each turn. I use Amiri to explore those locations since she can move there, explore, then move somewhere else at the end of her turn. Levitate can do the same, albeit only once each time you cast it.
This is what I'm talking about. Makes a lot of sense, but just something we hadn't encountered yet.

fleamo |
As for trading from the box, we are out adventuring - there is no shop/box on hand to trade with... Make do both what you've got.
But that's kind of my point. It DOESN'T really feel like an RPG, because when I choose not to prepare Sleep as a Wizard, it doesn't mean that it's gone from my memory forever. The next "day" on our adventure, when I prepare my spells, I can always choose from any spell I've known...

fleamo |
You can always houserule and play differently if you like, but it's useful to know what you're "meant" to do! And you're not meant to be able to go 'back to the box' unless you are short of cards.
Absolutely. Not arguing that. But I don't agree that it feels more like an RPG.
I think the Pathfinder/RPG skin/framework, while interesting, sometimes colours my perception of what I should and shouldn't be able to do.
If someone had made this exact game, but it was about, I dunno, police in the Prohibition era, or Indiana Jones-like treasure hunters, I wouldn't bat my eye if they said, "by the way, once a card is gone, it's gone forever." But, toss an RPG skin on it, and tell me that once my Wizard fails to prepare a spell, its gone from memory forever, and I get all up in arms!

raven614 |

I've found that in practice it works well, and feels like RPG. This is the best equipment I could afford that was available.
As for trading from the box, we are out adventuring - there is no shop/box on hand to trade with... Make do both what you've got.
Then you get to the Local Heroes scenario and your deck gets a lot better.
Yeah this is how I play no shop/box. I like how you worded this just thought I'd let you know.

OberonViking |

OberonViking wrote:As for trading from the box, we are out adventuring - there is no shop/box on hand to trade with... Make do both what you've got.But that's kind of my point. It DOESN'T really feel like an RPG, because when I choose not to prepare Sleep as a Wizard, it doesn't mean that it's gone from my memory forever. The next "day" on our adventure, when I prepare my spells, I can always choose from any spell I've known...
In my experience it works well enough for me, ymmv. It doesn't replicate Cantrips exactly, but these spells feel more powerful than Cantrips. So instead I start with three spells in my spell book. Gaining new spells, scribing them into the spell book is difficult (at least it requires a roll) and expensive when you're starting out, and in the card game you need to put a card feat into into. It's like levelling up. If you put that card feat into Weapons it's like multiclassing (not sure Ezren can do that).
Not perfect, but it works well enough for me. Better yet, I'm now playing an RPG a lot more often without being GM all the time.