Typical Rogue's Death? Massive Dmg or Failed Saves?

[Sir Thugsalot]

Rynjin wrote:

Andrea1 wrote:

The other problem with stealth is that as you go up in levels, there are things that will utterly shank your attempts at sneaking.

Scent
Tremorsense
Detect Heartbeat
Detect Blood

Last one is an utter BS power from some demon in the late RoTRL game. Just one of them but really, at that point you might as well have the wizard teleport everyone right on top of it

I have no clue what Detect Heartbeat is though.

<nod> Google hits for ["Detect Heartbeat" ranger pathfinder OR paizo] = zero.

Quote:

There's a Feat that deals with Tremorsense (Dampen Presence) but that second is one reason why Rangers utterly destroy Rogues at being Rogues (sneaky bastards).

Tremorsense, as a spell, is 3rd-edition; it was not carried into Pathfinder.

Quote:

Cast Negate Aroma before he goes scouting (or even at the start of the day since it's hour/level, and trust he doesn't get dowsed in some foul smelling substance) and boom, half of those problems are done away with.

Negate Aroma...not bad. (Rogue salts away 750gp or 2pp@PFS for the 1st-level wand around 6th or so; he'll probably still have charges left when he retires.)

[Rynjin]

Sir Thugsalot wrote:

Tremorsense, as a spell, is 3rd-edition; it was not carried into Pathfinder.

Quote:

Oookay...

It still exists as an ability, however, and one that is middling-common among certain foes.

Sir Thugsalot wrote:

Negate Aroma...not bad. (Rogue salts away 750gp or 2pp@PFS for the 1st-level wand around 6th or so; he'll probably still have charges left when he retires.)

Possible, but still more investment for less reward than the Ranger, who is now equal to the Rogue (or vice versa, anyway) in Stealth given similar investment (well...discounting Favored Terrain anyway) and fights better.

Rogue doesn't really bring much to the table besides Trapfinding, which is of dubious use at best since archetypes have it and there are ways of getting around them anyway.

[TarkXT]

I reallllyyy don't feel like writing another long and careful post early in the morning when I have too much writing to do as it is.

I'm just going to say this.

I build things that work. And work well. The only issues I've had is when I throw out all the hard learned lessons from far too extensive experience digging around in the mechanics of this thing called d20 and did something opposite of what I know not only works but is designed around the thoughts and intents of the developers. So, if you wish to not think about and discuss this honestly then I only have this left to say;

Do whatever works for you.

Personally I find superior tactics and maneuvering better than turtles and prayers for cooperation from the bad guy.