Only three players - all inexperienced too


Rise of the Runelords


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How should I go about balancing RotR for three teens?

They have been roleplaying with me using the Beginner Box, and now the Card Game, but they still need a lot of technical help and advice to build characters.

I'd prefer to avoid the GM-PC.


Have BBEG's use "less-than-optimal" tactics?

Monologue; leave themselves open (whilst trying to humiliate the PC's); not cast every spell they know just prior to the big battle (almost every BBEG is a spellcaster; not having those spells active REALLY weakens them).

If you're desperate, fudge the dice (*shiver*).

The game's only as difficult as the GM makes it.

Most importantly, give THE PLAYERS time to learn and make good use of their characters. PF is more "war-gamey" than a lot of the lighter game systems out there, so be patient.


Runelords is a tough AP but you basically have 2 options:

Run a DMPC to balance things out

Weaken every battle they fight

The DMPC is a lot less work so just go for that.


I have three totally non-optimized PCs running RotRL, and they're into book 5. I just let them choose their character classes (paladin, sorcerer, bard) and added a GMPC that complimented that group (barbarian). It's gone very well, and they an incredibly effective team.

BUT (and notice it's a big "but"):
(1) They chose core classes. It's really easy to mess things up by having a small party and choosing non-optimized versions of non-optimal classes.

(2) Their tactics are excellent to outstanding. It's rather embarrassing being involved in three other campaigns and watching much larger parties get their tails handed to them because they don't have any rational tactics. This group "sets the bar" for good combat tactics.

(3) We are a very close-knit group of gamers and friends. The four of us split off our own game just because we got along so well, and wanted a "Meet as often as we can and roleplay for hours, because who cares about combat really?" group. This makes the GMPC fit in quite well, because I get to roleplay with the other three people. GMPCs are frequently a huge risk; just search the threads for "GMPC or no GMPC" and you'll see some extremely strong opinions against them.


Add a few encounters to give them a bit of extra xp (and maybe extra cash if they need that too). Once they're a level ahead it should balance out, though that may depend on class balance. If they have 2 rogues and a halfling monk, that won't help.

As far as GMPCs go, you can go half way and not have to worry about balance or being one of the party. It's fairly much expected that they'll get help now and again. In the early levels, Hemlock could offer a couple of goons to go with them. Shalelu can help them out a bit, though obviously she's a bit overwhelming at first. And later on, the black arrows can assist where appropriate.


There's some good arguments for a GMPC. The three teens are my own kids, and we play together very well as a group in the PF card game, so I guess I can make a GMPC work.


What's your reason for hesitating with the GMPC? I think that matters here. Is it that you don't want to play both sides of the screen? Or you don't want to steal the glory? If it were me, I'd probably make a GMPC who was an elderly cleric -- kind of slow (physically), unlikely to be a lot of help in combat, but useful in patching them up and maybe buffing them, and a wonderful font of advice and wisdom so you can offer them a check once in a while when they're about to do something dumb. (Though I'd probably also have him give them bad advice once in a while so they always have to think for themselves.)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Sandpoint is full of interesting and cool NPCs, rather than a straight up GMPC allow the players to recruit friendly NPCs as allies. Ameiko and Shalelu are obvious choices for this role and both are primarily support characters (bard and archer specc'd ranger).


If they were slightly more experienced (or are willing to try) I'd suggest having them use the Mythic Rules and either start them as Mythic or give them one Mythic Tier upon finishing with the Runewell. The Mythic helps them keep from dying quickly and can give them extra actions which can help. You don't even need a lot of Mythic Tiers for this; a good place for a second Tier is fighting Mal in Thistletop, and then you could hold off on any other Tiers until possibly the Runeforge.

You could also use Hero Points and print out the rules for them. Then give them counters or something to track the Hero Points. (I'd recommend having only one Hero Point needed to prevent death, as it encourages the use of Hero Points at that point.)

Here's the question: what classes are they interested in playing? If they're a combat-heavy group (barbarians, fighters, rangers, or the like, along with clerics) then they may be able to cope with the lack of a fourth player.

And of course there's always GMPCs. I added a rogue to my Runelords group to fill them out (barbarian, bard/cleric, and ranger/wizard) and gave the rogue the auto-trap detection ability so I'd not be metagaming.


Also, keep in mind that the AP is written with the idea that all the XP and gear/loot is being split four ways. If you're only splitting rewards three ways, they will achieve personal progress faster than what the adventure is expecting. They should progress 1.33 x faster in a group of three versus a group of four. The only thing I would suggest is that at lower levels the PCs won't quite have that momentum yet, and for the first chapter I would front-load their gear a bit to help balance the offset, until they get to a point where that 1.33 xp progression closes the gap; probably around level 4 or 5. By that time, they should be a level or two higher than what is expected (but the total levels should still be close, so it should work out more or less.)


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To summarise all this great advice:

Eltargrim: play the BBEG’s less-than-optimal and give the players time to learn.
jahvul: DMPCs are less work than tweaking encounters
NobodysHome: 3 PCs can work. Stick to Core classes, and promote good tactics. GMPC can work.
Mudfoot: Get them one level ahead. Use NPCs rather than a GMPC.
Cleanthes: Consider an elderly cleric as GMPC, one who gives (mostly) good advice, buffs and healing.
DM_aka_Dudemeister: Use NPCs rather than a GMPC.
Tangent101: Consider adding a Mythic Tier, and/or Hero Points.
Tempus Avatar: With only three players they will progress faster, and around level 5 they should be about as powerful as the AP is written for.

I had already decided upon Core Classes only.

I plan to use an NPC rather than GMPC. As I read through the AP again I will keep an eye out for suitable NPCs to use, such as Hemlock offering one of his men as a guide around town.

I will flesh out some of the earlier encounters and move some of the loot and rewards to earlier in the first adventure. This should give them the extra gear and xp they need. I’ll try to make the extra encounters work as combat and roleplay lessons, demonstrating a variety of ways of how things can be done, combat and diplomacy, charge in and stealth.

Thank you for your advice.

Liberty's Edge

On the upside, they will level quicker.

On the downside...they will need help at times. I would run some of the Available NPC's until you find a 4th.


The first few chapters are pretty easy in my opinion, I've been combining encounters in the hopes of increasing the difficulty but really the tactics will decide how fights go, for or against the players. As the GM you can hold back your punches by splitting attacks amongst the players or make it harder by focusing them.

I would try and recruit more players as somebody being sick will seriously make a difference to the party.

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