Need help making a character

[Volaticus]

I'm going to be joining a fresh homebrewn campaign soon, and we're all starting at level 1. So far we've got a fighter, cleric, and sorcerer. As far as I know, the cleric is looking to be a healbot, the fighter is going to be using a 2h weapon, and the sorcerer is going to be blasting. I waited to be the last one to make his character, but my gm really wants me to play a rogue. It makes sense as we don't have any stealth or trapfinding (and my gm confirmed that stealth will be very useful), but I never really enjoyed the rogue. If it helps, I like doing good damage but being useful out of combat, like a player should. So I'm trying to see if anyone has any suggestions about what I should play, and really anything goes. I could probably even get my gm to let me play a 3rd party/custom made class. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Drannor Hawksley]

If you are limited to being a rogue (or multiclassing with some rogue levels) I'd suggest focusing on range. If that's not your style, then make a burly rogue and flank with the fighter a lot. Either of these options would be useful in combat, and rogues always have plenty of use out of combat. There is always ninja as well, if thematic concerns aren't an issue.

If you can stray from rogue, another type of utility/skillperson could be useful, it just means you are limited to disarming mundane traps. Things like ranger, bard, inquisitor. All of which can be both melee/ranged or even switchhitters, and all get 6+int skill ranks per level.

Good luck!

[Fake Healer]

without any ideas on what books and such are allowed....there are several achetypes that emulate some of the rogues trapfinding and lockpicking skills that may fit the bill.

there is a ranger archetype that is really nice for this. Urban Ranger.
There is also the Trapper Ranger.

There is also options for Bards and stuff that would do the rogue stuff...

[Volaticus]

Drannor Hawksley wrote:

If you are limited to being a rogue (or multiclassing with some rogue levels) I'd suggest focusing on range. If that's not your style, then make a burly rogue and flank with the fighter a lot. Either of these options would be useful in combat, and rogues always have plenty of use out of combat. There is always ninja as well, if thematic concerns aren't an issue.

If you can stray from rogue, another type of utility/skillperson could be useful, it just means you are limited to disarming mundane traps. Things like ranger, bard, inquisitor. All of which can be both melee/ranged or even switchhitters, and all get 6+int skill ranks per level.

Good luck!

Thanks for the reply. I was actually looking at ninja, but I'm still not sure. My GM isn't requiring me to play anything in particular, but he strongly suggested that I played a stealthy character. Traps aren't as big of a deal, but they will have a presence in the campaign. Ranger seems like an alright option, but would a ranged ninja (better sneak)be a better option? I don't even know how great ninjas are to be honest, and I'm looking for something that's pretty well optimized so our group isn't terrible.

[Volaticus]

Fake Healer wrote:

without any ideas on what books and such are allowed

Like I said, pretty much anything goes. I'm really looking at some of the less-common options right now, but I can't decide what I should go with

[Catastrophe]

I'd just like to point out that virtually anyone can be the party scout (if that's the role you're looking to fill and want to play). Some classes just make better scouts than others. The biggest skills you're looking at is Stealth, Disable Device and Perception.

That said, you can be just about anything and still focus on those skills. Looking at your party composition as it is now, if you were looking to maximize potential, I'd suggest range of some sort. Alchemists, Gunslingers and Rangers would be able to fit this role (in addition to fitting the role of scouting). I've also heard good things about Zen Archer Monks (and have played with a guy who focused on stealth with his monk, although he didn't put much into Disable Device as it wasn't really a dungeon-crawler adventure and so wasn't really a requirement; so far, anyways).

[Mark Hoover]

Some suggestions for a stealthy guy who scouts:

Rogue - any

Ranger - any

Wizard - take a trait to gain Stealth, use your familiar to scout, take utility/hiding/cover spells such as Obscuring Mist

Alchemist - similar to wizard; use alchemical devices to create stealth opportunities

Halfling Cavalier - Order of the Paw; use your mount for scouting and guarding; learn to track from dog-back

Witch - same thing as Wizard

Summoner - summon a lot of stealthy things

There's SO many ways to accomplish what your GM wants it's ridiculous. The bigger question is: what do YOU want?

[Kolokotroni]

Volaticus wrote:

Drannor Hawksley wrote:

If you are limited to being a rogue (or multiclassing with some rogue levels) I'd suggest focusing on range. If that's not your style, then make a burly rogue and flank with the fighter a lot. Either of these options would be useful in combat, and rogues always have plenty of use out of combat. There is always ninja as well, if thematic concerns aren't an issue.

If you can stray from rogue, another type of utility/skillperson could be useful, it just means you are limited to disarming mundane traps. Things like ranger, bard, inquisitor. All of which can be both melee/ranged or even switchhitters, and all get 6+int skill ranks per level.

Good luck!

Thanks for the reply. I was actually looking at ninja, but I'm still not sure. My GM isn't requiring me to play anything in particular, but he strongly suggested that I played a stealthy character. Traps aren't as big of a deal, but they will have a presence in the campaign. Ranger seems like an alright option, but would a ranged ninja (better sneak)be a better option? I don't even know how great ninjas are to be honest, and I'm looking for something that's pretty well optimized so our group isn't terrible.

Playing a ranged character with either a ninja or a rogue is a bad idea. Sneak attack and ranged attacks dont work well together.

There is an alternative if you are permitted 3rd party products though.

The super genius games Talented Rogue and Talented monk. The talented monk has rules to combine the rogue and monk together. You could play a character with Rogue skills and trapfinding (if you want it) and a ninja's ki pool (charisma based instead of wisdom based), and a monk's attack options (such as something similar to the zen archer for ranged). The talented monk allows you to use any weapon as effectively as another with monk style offense (flurry) so you wouldnt be strictly limited to bows like a zen archer and you wont be short on damage, because it allows any weapon to scale similar to unarmed damage. I personally love the idea of a suriken specialist.

[Fig]

You could be a trap ranger or an archeologist bard. Trap ranger might be most appropriate if you want to do some damage in combat.

[Mysterious Stranger]

I am surprised no one has suggested an Archeologist Bard. Take a feat to get disable device as a class skill and chose your spells wisely. If you focus on spells that you cast on yourself you don’t need a super high CHA. Invisibility, Heroism, and a couple of other spells will really boost your abilities far beyond what any rogue can hope to see. You even get some rogue talents so can take trap spotter talent.

The other thing your group lacks is knowledge skills. Identifying the weaknesses and abilities of monsters is something that will be as valuable if not more so than disabling traps.

[XMorsX]

Mercurial has post in the forums some interesting builds that fit your case, credits to him:

Halfling Archeologist: The best choise for you, since you will cover the need for the face, the stealthy and the trap-spotter and you can take ranks in knowledges since you don't have a wizard. He focuses on archery so you will deal solid damage in every battle too. And there are many things for a bard to do in a battle besides damage too.

Azata-Blooded Dervish of Dawn: A more martial approach to the bard, you will lack the trap-spotting capabilities and you will be worse at knowledge checks, but you can still be a perfect face and stealth character, while being a top-tier fighter too.

Smasher: This is essentially a rogue build aside the first 2 barbarian levels, but it certainly does not plays like the typical rogue. It capitalizes on the sap master feat tree in order to deal TREMENDOUS damage on a single hit. You lose trap-finding and your knowledges, but you can be a fine party face and stealthy character.

As a last thought remember that, besides deactivating magical traps, the trapfinding feature does not bring something special, you can safely substitute it with ranks in Disable Device.

I would prefer one of the first 2 builds, probably the first, mainly because the last one is kind of one-trick pony and has difficulties against immunity to non-leathal damage. All of them are great builds, though.

[blackbloodtroll]

Trapper/Freebooter Ranger.

Be everything that a Rogue is, and more, and better.

[Fake Healer]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Trapper/Freebooter Ranger.

Be everything that a Rogue is, and more, and better.

Yup, or you could be a ranged focus, Archivist Bard and do all the Rogue stuff and be able to buff the party and cast some spells while doing fairly well at range. I am playing a Lorekeeper Dwarven Archivist Bard and I am awesome at rogue stuff, I can use my perform to boost attacks, AC and saves of the party (which they love me for!), I can cast a bunch of good spells, I placed most of my feats into a bow and I am pretty decent at that, and I can help clean up afterwards with a wand of cure.

I know everything and am able to be anything the situation needs. He is pretty awesome.