He is taking a moment to stop and refocus himself? Stopping for a moment, while trying to send himself to greater reaches of raginess? yeah, its a kinda difficult.
briefly discussed a alternate thing to rage cycling, rage cost multiplication.
first time you use power, no extra cost, second time (in same combat) instead of stopping rage, then starting, it costs 2 rounds of rage to use. third, it costs 4 rounds, 4th, it costs 8 rounds, etc
I like this way better.
As you say rage cycling is hugely unintuitive.
It also means you don' have to either multiclass or wait till 17th level.
- Torger
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You're barbarian screams with all of his might, takes a few moments to breath heavily (a free action) then continues raging.
Youtube a UFC fight; these guys take "breaks" mid fight all the time. Same with boxers.
sept hte mechanic is bad. if i cant roleplay it, i cant use it, sorta the mantra of the group
No, the mechanic isn't 'bad' you just don't like it. There is a difference. People here have given you simple examples and apparently that 'doesn't work' for you. Maybe you should be asking the group for suggestions as you aren't hearing what you want here?
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This is the reason why I prefer the scarred rager rage cycling over the immune to fatigue rage cycling.
This makes him fatigued for 1 round if he rages 1 round. 1 round duration effects end just before the beginning of the next turn.
That means a scarred rager can rage during his turn, end rage at the end of his turn, is fatigued when it is not his turn and can rage again when his next turn starts because the fatigue ended just before his turn began.
With this kind of rage cycling you can roleplay it in the following way:
During your turn you focus your anger to hit with greater strength than you really have, taking some toll after, leaving you huffing and puffing for some seconds before you, once again heft your weapon and swing it with all the anger fuelled might you have.
The drawback to this is that it only works with one archetype and that you do not benefit from your rage out of turn. This makes some rage powers unusable.
But you can always decide to not rage cycle.
please explain to me how its not bad. explain to me how these suggestions arent in a best case scenario stretchingsept hte mechanic is bad. if i cant roleplay it, i cant use it, sorta the mantra of the groupNo, the mechanic isn't 'bad' you just don't like it. There is a difference. People here have given you simple examples and apparently that 'doesn't work' for you. Maybe you should be asking the group for suggestions as you aren't hearing what you want here?
I guess I'm just curious why you aren't talking to the group about how to make it work, as they will at least understand the limitations and restrictions that the rest of us strangers haven't got a clue about when you say it is some how "bad" or apparently impossible to role play. It's hard to give good advice with unknowns, and when done KISS is king. Blaming the mechanics is cop out when it comes to perceived role playing limitations.
The simplest way I can see someone pulling it off if a "burst of strength". You overextend yourself one turn, in hopes that one hit is all you need, and you become off balance the next (as you cycle). For rage cycling powers, you're just focusing your normal long-winded rage into a single action/attack/whatever. After which you need a moment to process everything due to the adrenalin/blood rush.
If you can't (but you have to) roleplay rage cycling then tell me, how do you roleplay having your rage powers usable only once per rage?
If you can't (but you have to) roleplay rage cycling then tell me, how do you roleplay having your rage powers usable only once per rage?
Partly this, partly how does one roleplay raging?
I'm not asking as an I don't know but one would assume, and hope, that every character is different.When raging do you turn into the foaming at the mouth stereotype most sane people hate? Is your character simply pushing themselves physically to a point they should be rather tired? In the former case, perhaps it's just a case of swimming in and out of that state; the latter (far more easy!), you've just perfected your technique to the point you're able to rest between exertions without being utterly shattered (see being fatigued).
As to the idea of using powers repeatedly via rage cycling - try the above idea - whatever you're doing is difficult and tiring ergo a breather is required.
Thinking it over, I'm just reiterating what has been said here already but I'm struggling to see the implausibility. I mean, to press the ideal of it being realistic - consider swinging a punch as hard as you physically could, disregarding how much it might hurt you and all other limitations people tend to have - to swing said punch requires tensing up. Ergo, requiring a second (or two) to focus.
That's just elaborating one option on how it could be considered, frankly.
I like to think of the rage as something you're trying to suppress on a daily basis, and when you rage you just let go. Those rage cycling moments are when you suppress it long enough to actually know what's going on before slipping back into the blood filled rage again.
How to roleplay it depends largely on your way of making it possible.
If, for example, you take one level of Oracle with the "lame" curse and therefore become immune to fatigue at level 9, you'd be some kind of lightly spiritual character who strikes with a lot of feral force, but doesn't go around roaring and barking the rest of the round.
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I don't get it, people are okay with roleplaying the changing of reality with a bit of finger wagging and a bit of latin, but rage cycling is a bad mechanic because you don't know how to roleplay it. . .
The "roleplay requirement" is usually a passive-aggressive attempt to ban ragecycling because it effectively grants the Barbarian a level 17 ability much earlier.
This is not to say that I think ragecycling belongs in every game but the player and DM should agree on its use (and the player be allowed to reroll, if necessary) rather than rely on RP as a punishment.
ya cmastah in that case youd have to make it so he will/can randomly go into a rage, uncontrolled on your part, and you cant exit the rage until the "pain" goes away or you suceed at a will check.
You could fluff it such that, gamewise the player controls it, but RP-wise, it just so happens to inflict the pain on him just when his player wants it to and the character is actually unaware of it.
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I have no idea how you could have trouble with RP, especially after the simple to follow suggestions, that work incredibly well thematically.
Also, there is no problem with the mechanics. You have given no evidence of fault.
I am not sure how to help you, or if you even want to be helped.
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I don't get it, people are okay with roleplaying the changing of reality with a bit of finger wagging and a bit of latin, but rage cycling is a bad mechanic because you don't know how to roleplay it. . .Is this in response to me?
I would think not. My first read of the thread leads me to believe its directed at the OP. how do the full casters in his group role play their changing of Reality?
Inspiration for 'rage cycling' can be observed in almost any real world athetic competition that involves an expenditure of energy and a period of respite, however brief.
It sounds as if you don’t like the rage cycling for personal reasons. If that is the case and you are playing a barbarian then it is simple, don’t do it. If someone else is playing a barbarian don’t tell them how to play their character. Even if you are the GM it is still their character and the roleplaying decision is up to them not you
I've played with a Barbarian that rp'd his rage as a literal spirit of anger that possessed him. Raging was when he let the spirit cut loose and go to town on whoever was around. Rage cycling was him regaining control, re-aiming the spirit and letting it off the chain again.
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There is no "bad", you improvise or act based on the rules you're given.
Try playing some long form based Improv, you can't say "those are meta restrictions, I can't improvise like that" you won't last long on any team. There are rules and structure, dealing with it is part of learning how to improvise and act. There will be many more instances of the rules forcing you into choices you might not have made. Just like interacting with other characters/improvisers will cause you to make a choice you maybe wouldn't have.
That's how it goes. Anything less is not improvising or role playing, it is trying to write a book, which is not what you are doing in this game. What we do when we play is use improvisation guided by a rules framework to create a story together.
Want to RP it? Then just do it within the rules. Don't like a character choice you made? In a game like this you can easily retcon it and do-over. i.e. follow the advice above, or make up something else, or don't use the ability.
You could have an in-game romance with a chunk of pineapple... goes great with cheese!
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Perhaps I am confused as to what rage cycling is. What benefit does rage cycling provide when there are intervening rounds of fatigue that have to be accounted for. It seems to me that one might be better serviced by continuing the rage to end the fight more quickly.
Rage Cycling is when you rage on and off every round. In order to rage cycle you have to be able to ignore the fatigue(by being immune or having tireless rage). The benefit is that you can spam your once per rage abilities every round if you want/need to.
Anyways, roleplaying it should be easy. There are dozens of ways to do so. You can pretend that your rage going off is the rage between swings. Its your perfect focus that allows you to rage without feeling the downsides. You can just pretend you rage nonstop and ignore that you ever stopped if you wanted. Lots and lots of ways to handle it.
You can just pretend you rage nonstop and ignore that you ever stopped if you wanted.
That's... actually a really good point. As far as rage goes, even when not raging, you can act like you are. Or otherwise make the window between rages so small that it needs nothing more than "He seems discouraged that you didn't fall to the ground, but the fire in his eyes relights and he takes another swing". Even though the mechanic says 1/rage... well, who really knows besides yourself when you're raging? (Unless you ascribe to the "Fighter with drain bramage while raging" camp, in which case we just go back to every other suggestion made thus far.)
Hmm at 3rd lvl an invulnerable rager barbarian will literally take no damage from that.
prototype00
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I know why some people would have an issue with rage-cycling, and justify their objection with a RP reasoning. Tireless rage is a level 17 power, which suggests this is the kind of level you might be looking at the rage cycle.
Rage powers can do some pretty good things, auto confirming crits, add your barbarian level to your cmd, +1 to +5 to hit for one of your attacks, make an attack of opportunity into any square threatened by the barbarian. These are just some of the per rage abilities. They are per rage for a reason, they are meant to be a limited resource.
Its relatively easy to remove fatigue however, allowing the rage cycle. Generally this has some form of cost, either dipping a level or 2 into oracle or some other class for example. This doesn't appear to unbalance the class, but it may be perceived as doing so as it effectively allows you to duplicate the level 17 ability...
So why can't you RP a rage cycle? As suggested above, there are many ways. Will your group accept them? Only if they feel the cost you pay to be able to rage cycle is sufficient I imagine.
Why even bother trying to role play rage cycling? Just think of it as your once per rage abilities now work once per round.
1) I can't remember the reference off-hand (NPC Codex Barbarian?), but I'm 99% certain that Paizo has published Barbarian NPCs who have stat-block references in their Tactics to Rage Cycling (not called that, but doing so to use 1/Rage powers more often). If it's 100% an intended part of the game design, it simply isn't "cheating the system".
Remember that EVERY Barbarian gets the ability to do this just from a class ability at high level, some techniques exist (either with your own immunities, abilities, or allies' actions Removing Fatigue) to do so earlier (including one Paizo Barbarian Archetype at 2nd level, at least for "on turn actions Rage/off turn not Raging" Rage Cycling).
2) I just call it "catching my breath" or "snapping out of it". It's not really more complicated than that.
Don't think about it just in the context of Rage Cycling. Think about dropping Rage period.
You can have only 1 Rage Round to start with. You enter Rage, and do stuff.
Are you OBLIGATED to be Raging for the entire round or can you immediately drop Rage right after completing your actions (possibly for some actual reason, e.g. to avoid Superstitious forced Saves vs. Cure spells).
NO, you're not obligated at any point to Rage for one entire round, that's why the game lets you drop it as a free action.
What if your Caster ally Readied an action to cast a spell dropping you out of Rage at the end of each turn?
Could be annoying (since you're losing all the off-turn benefits), but that's pretty clear cut.
Now Rage just happens to have a built in means for you to consciously do the same thing as a Free Action,
because it's totally under your control (that one psycho-murderer archetype aside),
and you don't become a mouth-foaming retard who is unable to make tactical decisions about what actions to take.
That is the difference between the psycho-murder Archetype and normal rage.
You don't need to roleplay the psycho-murderer archetype when you don't have that archetype.
3) You should point out that doing this (Rage Cycling) means you are either missing out on your Rage benefits off your turn, or on your turn. Rage has solid benefits both on and off turns (boosting your actions, giving you new actions vs. boosting your stats/saves and giving you new defensive actions). So you are giving up a substantial part of your actions, and can be said to be using Rage "inefficiently" when you choose to Rage Cycle. (which is why I recommend not Rage Cycling every round, but only when you need to, and trying to use SEVERAL DIFFERENT 1/rage powers in between)
Technically, you could claim that you could Rage, drop Rage, and re-enter Rage multiple times per turn, allowing you to avoid the down-side of giving up either on-turn or off-turn Rage benefits (at the cost of paying double the Rage Round cost each round, again increasing inefficiency), but that's easily enough covered by the rules saying how many free actions you can take per round is WHOLLY up to the GM: They can decide you can't take more than N free actions, and even disallowing taking a CERTAIN free action more than N times while allowing others, and that is WHOLLY within the RAW rules, not a house-rule. IMHO, not allowing 'double Raging' in one Round is a good idea (at least unless there is some special ability in play otherwise allowing one to enter Rage, e.g. as an Immediate Action).
Well, if you have that reputation it is probably well deserved, and that probably plays a factor in why you might have chosen to play a barbarian and choose to Rage Cycle. That possibly accurate judgement doesn't have much to do with Rage Cycle itself, though. But if you want to change that reputation, you probably should go out of your way to play UN-mix/maxed characters, and choosing NOT to play a Rage Cycling Barbarian is probably advisable if that is your goal.
Perhaps Paizo should make a new forum for "Recovery from Min-Maxing"?