Without getting into HD sizes and Darkvision, I believe the primary difference between H and MH is the way magic and other things affect them. Humanoids may have 'monstrous features' (Dwarves with Darkvision, ...), just as Monstrous Humanoids might only have one (giant size, ...). Both types have multiple exceptions, so the real difference is in the mechanics, or where am I wrong headed?
I don't understand your question.
Humanoid is a creature type.
Monstrous humanoid is a creature type.
If a spell specifies humanoid it doesn't work on monstrous humanoids, or plants, or dragons, etc.
Also:
Monstrous humanoids are similar to humanoids, but with monstrous or animalistic features. They often have magical abilities as well. A monstrous humanoid has the following features.
d10 Hit Die.
Base attack bonus equal to total Hit Dice (fast progression).
Good Reflex and Will saves.
Skill points equal to 4 + Int modifier (minimum 1) per Hit Die. The following are class skills for monstrous humanoids: Climb, Craft, Fly, Intimidate, Perception, Ride, Stealth, Survival, and Swim.Traits: A monstrous humanoid possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).
Darkvision 60 feet.
Proficient with all simple weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Monstrous humanoids not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Monstrous humanoids are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
Monstrous humanoids breathe, eat, and sleep.
"Humanoid races have few or no supernatural or spell-like abilities, but most can speak and have well-developed societies."
"If a spell specifies humanoid it doesn't work on monstrous humanoids,..."
All the features of H/MH are not fixed and are often mutable. Even the darkvision granted to all MH can be removed and Dwarves get it to start with. All H get are the fluff of organized societies.
MH get a bigger HD, better BAB, two saves and better skills, all of which are lost if they are a 0 HD taking a Class.
This is the gist of what I'm asking. Is this/are these the only real differences or am I missing something?
It's more of a flavor thing, really. Monstrous humanoids are mainly supposed to be creatures of myth and legend, like centaurs, minotaurs, Yeti, hags, harpies, and gargoyles, or creatures created by unearthly powers or eldritch mishaps like Crabmen, mongelmen, or nightgaunts. One will not typically see a monstrous humanoid being used as a 0HD PC race.
Why wouldn't a spell targeting humanoids work on monstrous humanoids? They are humanoids after all.
(Mostly playing devil's advocate.)
Typically, Monstrous Humanoids gain racial hit dice, while Humanoids generally don't (there are exceptions of course).
The biggest exception are Giants. Although Giants used to be MH, but became H in the conversion to PF from 3.5. So their racial hit dice are mostly a hold over.
Only exceptionally powerful humanoids have racial hit dice (Honestly, other than giants, I can't think of a humanoid race with racial hit dice). That was actually one of the big differences in 3.5.
The line between humanoid and monstroush humanoid has become a little blurred. I think the idea originally was that humanoids are really close to humans in physique, two legs, two arms, one head, maybe a tail, and an upright posture while monstrous humanoids would be anything with wilder variations, more heads or limbs, or less limbs, hunched postures, more strongly differing proportions, odd growths such as large horns or snakes for hair etc.
But by now this has changed quite a bit. Things like merfolk, lizardfolk, trolls are now humanoids, while they would easily fit into the monstrous humanoid category.
Mechanically i would look no further than the difference in their racial hit dice (and the base saves, class skills and traits determined by them)
Why wouldn't a spell targeting humanoids work on monstrous humanoids? They are humanoids after all.
(Mostly playing devil's advocate.)
Because the rules say so explicitly.
Ah, forgot that Lizardfolk and Trolls had also been moved into the Humanoid bucket. But again, that's a change with PF. Originally I believe, MH vs H had one major tick, which was the Racial Hit Dice.
lol. That makes sense, Kazaan.
Ah, forgot that Lizardfolk and Trolls had also been moved into the Humanoid bucket. But again, that's a change with PF. Originally I believe, MH vs H had one major tick, which was the Racial Hit Dice.
Yup, it used to be that humanoids didn't have racial hit dice. Today that differs on a race-to-race basis.
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"Humanoid races have few or no supernatural or spell-like abilities, but most can speak and have well-developed societies."
"If a spell specifies humanoid it doesn't work on monstrous humanoids,..."
All the features of H/MH are not fixed and are often mutable. Even the darkvision granted to all MH can be removed and Dwarves get it to start with. All H get are the fluff of organized societies.
MH get a bigger HD, better BAB, two saves and better skills, all of which are lost if they are a 0 HD taking a Class.
This is the gist of what I'm asking. Is this/are these the only real differences or am I missing something?
There are quite a few differences.
Humanoids have subtypes, such as Human, Elf, Gnome, Halfling, Orc, Giant, Reptile, Tengu, Wayang, Goblin, etc.
Monstrous Humanoids have no subtypes. (EDIT: alright, a few do, like Doppelgangers and Gargoyles, but when you're choosing a Ranger's Favored Enemy or putting Bane on your weapon, you have to specify a subtype of Humanoid, whereas with Monstrous Humanoids you just get them all)
All Monstrous Humanoids have Darkvision. Only a handful of Humanoids do.
Humanoids have d8 Hit Die. Monstrous Humanoids have d10.
Here is the expansive list of each:
Humanoid
A humanoid usually has two arms, two legs, and one head, or a human-like torso, arms, and a head. humanoids have few or no supernatural or extraordinary abilities, but most can speak and usually have well-developed societies. They are usually Small or Medium (with the exception of giants). Every humanoid creature also has a specific subtype to match its race, such as human, dark folk, or goblinoid.
Humanoids with 1 Hit Die exchange the features of their humanoid Hit Die for the class features of a PC or NPC class. Humanoids of this sort are typically presented as 1st-level warriors, which means they have average combat ability and poor saving throws. Humanoids with more than 1 Hit Die (such as giants) are the only humanoids who make use of the features of the humanoid type.
A humanoid has the following features (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).
d8 Hit Die, or by character class.
Base attack bonus equal to 3/4 total Hit Dice (medium progression).
One good save, usually Reflex.
Skill points equal to 2 + Int modifier (minimum 1) per Hit Die or by character class. The following are class skills for humanoids without a character class: Climb, Craft, Handle Animal, Heal, Profession, Ride, and Survival. Humanoids with both a character class and racial HD add these skills to their list of class skills.
Traits: A humanoid possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).Proficient with all simple weapons, or by character class.
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, or by character class. If a humanoid does not have a class and wears armor, it is proficient with that type of armor and all lighter types. Humanoids not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Humanoids are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
Monstrous Humanoid
Monstrous humanoids are similar to humanoids, but with monstrous or animalistic features. They often have magical abilities as well.
A monstrous humanoid has the following features.
d10 Hit Die.
Base attack bonus equal to total Hit Dice (fast progression).
Good Reflex and Will Saves.
Skill points equal to 4 + Int modifier (minimum 1) per Hit Die. The following are class skills for monstrous humanoids: Climb, Craft, Fly, Intimidate, Perception, Ride, Stealth, Survival, and Swim.
Traits: A monstrous humanoid possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).Darkvision 60 feet.
Proficient with all simple weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Monstrous humanoids not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Monstrous humanoids are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.