Good afternoon - New GM here, had a question or two.


GM Discussion

1/5

So I just started DMing for a PFS group. They're all still 1st level. Does anyone have an opinion on a scenario title that is a dungeon crawl? Seems the guys I am running for get more of a kick out of beating on goblins than speaking with an Absolom official.

Secondly, I seem to recall the scenarios having a (retired) next to them when going to order them. I am not seeing that anymore. Am I missing something, or have they all been reinstated for running.. for some reason?

Thanks!
Justin Kellerman

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Washington—Spokane

Justin,

On the scenario front, the only basic crawl that I can recall is the now retired First Steps Part 2. If you want to go into modules, Thornkeep is pretty much a crawl.

With the retired question, I am not sure which scenario(s) you are referencing. Please clarify and we might be able to get a better answer on that question.

Welcome to PFS!!!

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

'Master of the Fallen Fortress" is a free module.
Season 1: "Delirium's Tangle".
Season 3: "Echoes of the Overwatched".
Season 4: "Veteran's Vault".

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Washington—Spokane

Thanks Chris!!!

5/5 5/55/5 *** Venture-Captain, Germany—Hamburg

Quote:
'Master of the Fallen Fortress" is a free module.

I can also recommend that. It's almost a classic dungeon crawl.

Also nice dungeon crawling types (of those I have already played. Can't say much about the rest):
0-07 Among the Living
3-19 The Icebound Outpost
3-23 The Goblinblood Dead
3-25 Storming the Diamond Gate
4-02 In Wrath's Shadow

(they're mostly not completely dungeon-crawling, but they have a good deal of dungeon.)

You might also want to take a look at "Crypt of the Everflame", a sanctioned module.

Quote:
Season 1: "Delirium's Tangle".

That one can become a long series of dice rolls, and if the party doesn't have good dungeon-crawling skills, it can become very deadly.

1/5

Thanks guys. Preston regarding the (retired) issue - I could have swore I saw it on all of the season 0, 1, and most if not all of season 2. Are those available for play/credit for PFS?

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Andreas,

Good choices. But 3-25 "Storming the Diamond Gate" and 4-02 "In Wrath's Shadow" aren't available to Justin's 1st-level group.

Also, several of them have some pre-dungeon chatting and socializing (Taldan elite / gypsy smugglers...)

"Crypt of the Everflame" is a great choice.

--

Justin, almost all of Season 0 is still legal. All of Seasons 1, 2, and 3 are legal, except for First Steps II and III, which are retired. Nevertheless, they're great adventures, except for that caveat; you can play them and have a fun time; just don't hand out a Chronicle sheet at the end.

4/5

While "Among the Living" has some pre-slaughterfest RPing, "Among the Dead" has a bare minimum of exposition before getting down to business.

Mists of Mwangi, Voice in the Void and The Penumbral Accords (the Blackrose Museum scenarios) are all pretty pure dungeon crawls. You can even reuse the same maps for a couple of them! ;)

4/5 *

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Consider Master of the Fallen Fortress secon— er, thirded.

The lists that Andreas Forster and Chris Mortika gave are very solid, and I agree with Akerlof that the Blakros Museum scenarios are good additions.

Additionally, if the action is what your players like and you don't need to be dungeon delving itself, just immersed in combats over RPing, your options expand somewhat. I'd also offer up Season 0 scenarios Silent Tide and Perils of the Pirate Pact in that case.

Have a great time!

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Chris, I kept away from Season 0 because the adventures have become this odd Pathfinder / D&D hybrid now. It requires the GM to consult the D&D 3.5 Monster Manual. (Which is one of the reasons that I no longer recommend "Among the Living", an excellent scenario with real flavor and tactical punch. Zombies in D&D are very different from their Pathfinder analogues.)

4/5 *

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Excellent point.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

I'd also add:

Season 1: Infernal Vault

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

I'd add Mists of Mwangi, Voice in the Void, The Penumbral Accords, The Veteran's Vault, The Icebound Outpost and The Beggar's Pearl as dungeon crawly. Be careful when running Beggar's Pearl, though, as the final boss is extremely complicated.

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

To the developers: I wouldn't mind seeing a couple more low- to mid-tier dungeon delves.

Silver Crusade 2/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

If you and your players have a day to run a game, you also might want to consider the Godsmouth Heresy (link) module, which is for all intents and purposes a dungeon crawl as well. And suitably spooky/atmospheric in parts too, if your players are the type that get into the atmosphere of the dungeon they're in.

Enjoy!
-SK

1/5

#39 - The Citadel of Flame is all dungeon crawl, from what I remember.

#4-01 - Rise of the Goblin Guild is mostly dungeon crawl... a quick bit at the beginning with a chase and some "roleplaying" (read Diplomacy/Intimidate skill checks), but the dungeon took up the majority of the time when I ran it.

Grand Lodge 4/5

6 - Black Waters, despite the 3.5 stuff, is pretty much a dungeon crawl.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

While not set in a dungeon per se, #2-23: Shadow's Last Stand—Part I: At Shadow's Door has a lot of hack and slash to it, and IMHO is much better than the review score indicates.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

Justin Kellerman wrote:
Secondly, I seem to recall the scenarios having a (retired) next to them when going to order them. I am not seeing that anymore. Am I missing something, or have they all been reinstated for running.. for some reason?

The full list of retired scenarios is HERE; any scenarios not on that list are legal for PFS play.

I'm not aware of any scenarios or modules being retired and then reinstated.

5/5 5/55/5 *** Venture-Captain, Germany—Hamburg

Quote:
But 3-25 "Storming the Diamond Gate" and 4-02 "In Wrath's Shadow" aren't available to Justin's 1st-level group.

oops, I totally forgot to think of the tier when I browsed my memory about suitability for dungeon delves ^^

Quote:
#4-01 - Rise of the Goblin Guild is mostly dungeon crawl... a quick bit at the beginning with a chase and some "roleplaying"

I loved that one when I played it with my Silver Crusade character. (Anyone who knows the SC faction mission in that one might know what I'm referring to.)

Anyway, as a GM, you can adapt many scenarios to be combat heavy. Just cut the diplomatic encounters as short as possible and "skip" to the next combat. (But please, don't acutally skip entire dialogues with NPCs ;) )

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

I do feel like I should chime in and say that a few diplomatic encounters wouldn't hurt, though. Your team may start to like them. :P

Shadow Lodge 3/5

I'll tell you as someone who has played a while, GM'd a while, and prefers combat to roleplay: the key to getting the team interested in diplomatic play is to find the right scenario to do it. Some scenarios just don't work for this, and some are fantastic.

As an example, Shades of Ice 3 has a notable roleplay encounter that can ruin the whole scenario if done incorrectly, or make the scenario a solid trilogy finale if done correctly. What's key in this one is making sure it is read out slowly, and everything's well and truly understood.

If you want more good roleplay ones, ask, but that's not what you're after at the moment, so I won't go into more detail on that for now.

3/5

Netopalis wrote:
I do feel like I should chime in and say that a few diplomatic encounters wouldn't hurt, though. Your team may start to like them. :P

Honestly in my experience players that do not like roleplay situations usually start to enjoy it more whne they have a good roleplayer with them.

Netopalis go show'em how it is done.

Scarab Sages 4/5

Justin Kellerman wrote:

Does anyone have an opinion on a scenario title that is a dungeon crawl?

Am I missing something, or have they all been reinstated for running.. for some reason?

Thornkeep is my favorite.

But there are a bunch of dungeon crawl scenarios or scenarios that are heavy dungeon crawl and light roleplay.

4/5 *

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Thornkeep is fun, but I'd definitely wait to run the first part until your players are 2nd level. There's a monster in there that can quite easily kill a 1st-level character with one hit.

Spoiler:
It's a wight.

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Comment on Matt's recommendation:

Spoiler:

I can certainly appreciate that. He's not alone in his recommendation, but I'll disagree.

1) Except for that encounter, the encounter immediately after it, and some jumpy bugs, the encounters on the first level are very typical for a 1st-level party. In fact, a 2nd-level party will most likely find them dull. "Three goblins with swords?" "Four skeleton archers?"

2) The party has warnings that they're in an area with some walking dead. A bit of prudence on the part of the PCs, and some fair play on the part of the GM, make that a scary encounter, but one well within the capabilities of a starting party.

The jumpy bugs are nasty, though.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Comment on Chris's comment:

Spoiler:
Remember that the wight starts prone, and has no special defenses other than undead traits. No DR, no SR, fairly low AC even before you start adding in flat-footed and prone.

Last time I ran it, the PC that triggered the wight to act wound up 15' away from the wight. Stand up, move 10', done for the turn. It never did get an attack.

They found the shadow scarier, since 1d8 Strength damage can add up if the PC that triggers it is a Sorcerer or Wizard. Dump stat Strength much? ;)

On the jumpy bugs, though, make very sure that you have those two dead goblins in the room visible and in the awareness of the party. It also makes a big difference as to whether they can jump/charge into combat from their spots lying in wait on the wall or not. One attack or 4 attacks makes a serious difference.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5 ****

Thornkeep spoiler:
unless they do what the characters did in mine. They triggered the undead in that room, and then charged right up to them (having won initiative). The only level one in the group of six ended up right next to the wight. The results were sadly predictable

They also did have trouble with more than a few of the fights. The stirges ate them up, as did the shadow.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Spoiler:
Bad tactics is bad tactics, not much the GM can do other than ask, "Is that your final action?" If the first level just charges up to something that can one-shot him, and doesn't go for tactical positioning, it gonna hurt.

My last party both never got anyone next to him for him to full attack, but managed to focus fire on him with mainly ranged attacks, to fatal effect for the wight. I think he may have gotten one round of attacks off, but +4 against a well-armored fighter-type was no contest. AC 20+, IIRC.

Fortunately, unless all three stirges focus on a single target, they are unlikely to be more than an annoying nuisance. Each of them will cause, at most, 4 points of Con damage. Hopefully, you won't have that Con 5 Elven Wizard as the person in the lead, or all alone, trying to cross that chasm. Then again, at that point, he should also know that a fall from that height would be fatal to him, anyhow.

The Sshadow can be a danger, especially if the GM has "hot" dice. A shadow crit, even against that melee bear, would be ugly. 12 points of Strength damage in a single hit? Ouch. Which is one of the reasons I don't recommend Strength, even for a Wizard or Sorcerer, as a dump stat.

Shadows, and their nastier cousins, are a fairly common undead encounter, in my experience. Incorporeal, generating more of themselves, and using touch attacks means that they can be dangerous even against higher level PCs, even just the base shadows. A party without a positive channeler can rapidly get into trouble against shadows.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Melee getting next to a monster isn't bad tactics, its a requirement in the system.

Grand Lodge 4/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Melee getting next to a monster isn't bad tactics, its a requirement in the system.

Bad tactics is when the lowest level person in the group is serving as the tank. Means that they are going to be fragile against enemies, compared to the higher level folks in the party....

5/5 5/55/55/5

kinevon wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Melee getting next to a monster isn't bad tactics, its a requirement in the system.
Bad tactics is when the lowest level person in the group is serving as the tank. Means that they are going to be fragile against enemies, compared to the higher level folks in the party....

That isn't tactics its group composition. You go on the adventure with the party you have, not the party you want.

So you don't usually have anyone but one fighter as THE melee character? Everyone else is out of range?

Also many 1st level fighter types will be roughly as or slightly less squishy than 2nd level caster types.

Yeah. NO first levels in thornkeep. Its poorly designed.

4/5

kinevon wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Melee getting next to a monster isn't bad tactics, its a requirement in the system.
Bad tactics is when the lowest level person in the group is serving as the tank. Means that they are going to be fragile against enemies, compared to the higher level folks in the party....

When the level 1 is also the one with 20+AC and 16+ Con what do you do? I went through levels 2 and 3 of Thornkeep with my AC 17 Inquisitor as the tank because he was the least squishy party member. We certainly would have had someone else in the lead if we'd had anyone sturdier, even if they were lower level.*

More importantly, what do you do when nobody in the party has the knowledge to ID that particular enemy, especially if you did poorly on your Heal checks earlier to identify the clues. Or if your party isn't experienced enough to put the clues together.

I agree with BNW, it's a poorly designed module.

Spoiler:

I did the second and third levels on my inquisitor because my gnome cavalier died to the shadow on the first level: Surprise round max damage crit followed up by an almost automatic hit for another 4 Str damage. Since you cannot buy higher than an 18, none of the small sized core classes could have survived those two atttacks.


Funny how different groups operate. I ran my first PF session this past weekend. We started Rise of the Runelords. We had about 3 hours of very entertaining RP interaction between the PC's and the NPC townsfolk. My players enjoyed the heck out of their entry into Sandpoint, and were thoroughly amused by the goings on at the Swallowtail Festival.

Then, once the combat started, they quickly got rather bored, and they're looking forward to the next RP interlude next session.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5 ****

kinevon wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Melee getting next to a monster isn't bad tactics, its a requirement in the system.
Bad tactics is when the lowest level person in the group is serving as the tank. Means that they are going to be fragile against enemies, compared to the higher level folks in the party....

Well, it came down to this. The halfling fighter was a melee guy, and the first couple PCs to go we're him and the barbarian... Neither with the needed knowledge skills, so the worst guy was not identified.

same:
until they start moving, a wight looks about the same as the zombies. Especially without the needed skills. The worst part is when, a round later, the former halfling hero stands up again (I rolled a 1 on the d4). That is the #1reason we strongly recommend against lev 1 characters locally in The Accursed Halls. Because the one death can turn quickly into a TPK the wights start spreading

Other than that, it is not the worst fight of the level.

As for the stirges, I figured they should spread out. Especially when the guy climbing down into the pit was the halfling (yeah, he took the brunt of this module). Figured there wasn't enough halfling to go around.

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