Grapple + Vertical Jump [Acrobatics]

[Warhaven]

Assuming I can succeed at the 10 ft (DC 40) or 20 ft (DC 80) jump, would anyone here see a problem with moving your enemy UP as a grapple action to move the enemy? I'd assume they get the usual free attempt at +4 to break the grapple because I'd be attempting to move them into dangerous terrain, but aside from that, it's still movement, correct?

Fluff:

At 4th level, my human luchador will be as such:

01 Monk (MoMS/Hungry Ghost)
02 Monk
03 Ninja
04 Ninja (Acrobatic Master trick)

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Feats
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1b Punishing Kick [Hungry Ghost]
1b Improved Unarmed Strike [Monk]
1b Kobold Style [MoMS]
1b Improved Grapple [Human]
1 Combat Reflexes
2b Kobold Groundling [MoMS]
3 Vicious Stomp

Tactic: Round 1, grapple. Round 2, attempt to move enemy 10 ft. into the air (mostly succeeds at this with a 5 or higher). Free action, release enemy. He falls for 1d6 damage and is prone. Triggers Vicious Stomp (atomic leg drop, flying elbow, meteor pile driver, etc.). Kobold Groundling makes him lose dex while prone, so I get an extra 1d6 sneak from ninja (it IS his signature move, after all... his flying elbow should be more devastating than others. hehehe).

At 6th level, he'll have his 2nd ninja trick (High Jumper) and presumably Monk's Robes and Boots of Speed. He'll be able to auto-succeed a 20ft jump because of the very healthy bonus to Acrobatics from increased movement. At 10th level, he'll be able to mostly succeed at 30ft jump. :D

[Mojorat]

Mechanically I think it works. I'm not clear how you expect to have 25k gold in gear that early. Also how your making a dc 120 check are lvl 10. You know the boots of haste so not stack with monk speed right?. Without the other numbers and 2 3/4 bab classes it looks like you will have difficulty actually grappling anyone.

On a final note when you do this you need ro add the wight of the creature to your load. There may be reasons why this doesn't work but not seeing them.

[The Terrible Zodin]

One of the grapple options is to move your opponet 1/2 your speed. Rules wise you could do that movement upward if you were capable of doing so.

But as noted, vertical leaps are really hard to do. You'd be better off with some form of flying. Potions are only 750 gp.

[The Terrible Zodin]

As a secondary question. Can you get the movement bonus to jumps if you are moveing? (Aside from the jump.)

[Mojorat]

Yeah that's just based on your capacity to move. Not if you are actually moving.

[Warhaven]

Mojorat wrote:

Mechanically I think it works. I'm not clear how you expect to have 25k gold in gear that early. Also how your making a dc 120 check are lvl 10. You know the boots of haste so not stack with monk speed right?. Without the other numbers and 2 3/4 bab classes it looks like you will have difficulty actually grappling anyone.

On a final note when you do this you need ro add the wight of the creature to your load. There may be reasons why this doesn't work but not seeing them.

Qadira faction (4 PP for 10% off). And treasure map boon w/ slow advancement.

For a ninja with the Acrobatic Master and High Jumper tricks, that 30 ft jump DC is only a 60. And I wasn't speaking of boots of speed. Meant to say Boots of Striding and Springing. Not for the speed boost, but for the +5 competence boost. Although, Ring of Jumping would be better for the same effect. Most importantly are the Monk's Robes for more speed (13k), ki point for another +20 move, ki point for +20 to any acrobatic roll, and mule back cords for extra lift. And that's only scratching the surface on bonuses.

And I have extra CMB bonuses from various feats (sneak + Kobold style, improve grapple, and other things). Plus, monk uses full level for CMB, so I'm only short 1 "BaB" from ninja.

I could go on, but I was just seeing if it were a legal move. TY for your post!

[Avatar-1]

I think there might be a difference between "grappling" someone along the ground and "picking them up".

Moving an enemy along the ground where they're forced to is one thing, but carrying them into the air with you is another, and then dropping them expecting them to fall prone - it's a big pile of if's.

[Mojorat]

yeah thats why I said that it looks sound by the rules but i wasnt really sure. Carrying capacity would normally prevent it really. But stuff like ant haul can solve that problem. Do flying creatures have severate rules for what you can carry? that would honestly be a good model.

but yeah having controll of somone's wrist and guiding them isnt the same as picking them up.

[Warhaven]

Avatar-1 wrote:

I think there might be a difference between "grappling" someone along the ground and "picking them up".

Moving an enemy along the ground where they're forced to is one thing, but carrying them into the air with you is another, and then dropping them expecting them to fall prone - it's a big pile of if's.

Thanks for responding Avatar-1 and Mojorat. I'd have to disagree with there being a difference. If you think of grappling in Greco-Roman wrestling terms, you do a lot of "picking them up" for many of the moves. It's exactly what the Russian Bear does, and his opponents don't have a choice in the matter! (part of the inspiration for this character). Take a look at him (Aleksandr Karelin) on youtube. The guy quite literally picks up his opponent whole bodily, and then body slams them into the mat. You get to see a many a panicked faces as he does it, lol!

Same deal here with my character, except in a magical/fantasy setting, I'm using otherworldly powers to take them 10 ft. into the air before I slam them into the ground. :D

[edit]

Also, I've seen more than one fight in UFC (Frank Shamrock vs. Igor Zinoviev) in UFC 16) where the opponent is not only lifted off the ground, but the fighter jumps off the ground before slamming them into the mat.