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I would say so.
We're discussing this in another thread. I'm eager to hear an official ruling on this.
My interpretation is that strength bonuses would *not* apply when you use Lini's power.
The power says "You may discard a card to roll d10 instead of your Strength or Dexterity die for any check".
This seems equivalent to this sentence,
"You may discard a card to roll d10 instead of your Strength die for a Strength check, or discard a card to roll d10 instead of your Dexterity die for a Dexterity check."
Much wordier, but a bit more precise, and I think it says the same thing.
Now lets say your Strength die is 1d4 + 2 and your Dexterity die is 1d6. Substituting those into the sentence, it becomes:
"You may discard a card to roll d10 instead of (1d4 + 2) for a Strength check, or discard a card to roll d10 instead of 1d6 for a Dexterity check."
-> "d10" *instead* of "1d4 + 2"
-> bonuses do no apply to the d10 under this interpretation
If bonuses are meant to carry over to the d10, I think the wording on the power needs to be improved. My suggestion is this:
"When attempting a Strength or Dexterity check, you may discard a card to change your die to a d10."
I went though and re-read the example of play in the rulebook. It indicates that when Ezren rolls his spell damage (his "arcane die" plus 2d4) he ends up totaling up his numbers and adding 2 to them (because his "arcane die is a d12+2").
This would lend far more credit to Quantum Ninja. I just don't want this to be so! Lini is just turning out to be such an awful character, and this handicaps her even MORE.
I have to agree with this interpretation, with one question. Then wouldn't Blessing of the gods add d4 + 2 instead of another d4 whne you use it?
Is the wording consistent, because if it is the implementation should be also.
QuantumNinja, you're interpretation of "what is a die" conflicts with the designers stated interpretation.
Based on your interpretation, then if Lini played a BotG, she should get a bonus 1d4+2 since her strength die is 1d4+2. This has been established to be false.
Her strength "die" is 1d4. She gets a +2 bonus when she makes a strength check.
Using her power would change her strength "die" to 1d10, but would not change the bonus. Thus 1d10+2.
Sounds right to me.
You know, someone mentioned this game being similar to Sentinels of the Multiverse - another character-based cooperative game. I know in THAT game, the rule book says something to the effect of "this is a cooperative game, and it is up to the players to resolve things in the way that benefits them most"
Perhaps we should just say "die" is whatever benefits the player most?
I agree with Tracker1. Lini's "Strength die" is 1d4. She gets a bonus to her Strength checks equal to +1 (if you've checked off that box). If you discard a card to use the power, you use 1d10 instead of your "Strength die" [1d4] and so you get 1d10 + 1.
The problem with this interpretation is that if you now always assume "Strength die" is referring to just the d4, and not the d4 + feat bonuses, then you almost never get to use your feat bonus.
For example,
Mace is "For you combat check, reveal this card to roll your Strength [die] or Melee die...". Well if I'm playing Valeros who's Strength is "1d10 + 4", but "Strength die" means "1d10" not "1d10 + 4", then the +4 bonus doesn't carry into the Mace's effect if I chose to make it a Strength check.
Similarly, if I'm Ezren playing Force Missile ("For your combat check, discard this card to roll your Arcane die")... Under your interpretation, my "Arcane die" is d12 (not d12 + 3 + any feat bonuses), so those bonuses wouldn't transfer into Force Missile.
QuantumNinja, you're interpretation of "what is a die" conflicts with the designers stated interpretation.
Based on your interpretation, then if Lini played a BotG, she should get a bonus 1d4+2 since her strength die is 1d4+2. This has been established to be false.
Her strength "die" is 1d4. She gets a +2 bonus when she makes a strength check.
Using her power would change her strength "die" to 1d10, but would not change the bonus. Thus 1d10+2.
I kind of explained this in this post.
Short answer is, no, under my interpretation, if Lini used her power to give her a d10 for her strength check, and then used a Blessing, the blessing would give her additional d10s, not d4s.
I think you misread my comment. Switch to Valeros for a second, just set aside the confusion over Lini's power...
If he takes a feat to get +1 to his strength die.
By the accepted (and confirmed by devs) interpretation, if Valeros uses a BotG on a strength check, he rolls 2d10 +1.
However, based on your interpretation, he would get 2d10 + 2
No, that's absolutely not what I'm saying.
I'm saying there's a difference between "Strength die" and just "die".
I'm saying "Strength die" always refers to "the stat dice, listed on your character, PLUS any bonuses on the character card". This is what allows you to transfer your feat bonuses into cards like Mace (because "roll your Strength die or Melee die" means to apply any feat bonuses). This is what allows you to transfer your feat bonuses into cards like Force Missile (because "roll your Arcane die" means to apply any feat bonuses).
I'm saying the term "die" used in isolation, refers to the base stat dice. So if my "Strength die is 1d10 + 4", my "die" for that check is d10. The language on Blessings is "add a die", so if I play a blessing to boost my Strength check by "adding one die" I roll 2d10 + 4. If I play a blessing to boost my Strength by "adding two dice" I roll 3d10 + 4.
If the Blessing said "Add another Strength die", then it would 2d10 + 8. But it just says "die", so everything is fine, and my interpretation agrees with the established rules about how Blessings work.
Lets look at the card great axe. I think this is going to solve some problems.
For your combat check reveal this card to roll your strength or melee die + 1d12; you may additionally discard this card to add your unmodified strength die.
So, the first strength die includes your modified strength, if you discard the card you add your strength die but it's unmodified.
I think you modified skill is always going to be included in the check, unless a card tells you otherwise.
I think you modified skill is always going to be included in the check, unless a card tells you otherwise.
I agree with this completely, and it doesn't contradict anything I've already said.
I agree with this completely, and it doesn't contradict anything I've already said.
I think you modified skill is always going to be included in the check, unless a card tells you otherwise.
Okay, I guess I don't know what the issue is anymore.
Similarly, if I'm Ezren playing Force Missile ("For your combat check, discard this card to roll your Arcane die")... Under your interpretation, my "Arcane die" is d12 (not d12 + 3 + any feat bonuses), so those bonuses wouldn't transfer into Force Missile.
Read though the example of play on page 20. I am not sure exactly WHAT the answer is- but it's pretty much in black and white there.
If you use the Great Axe card as a precedence, then it seems pretty clear that Lini's power as written replaces the d4+2 with a flat d10. With the great axe is assume "strength die" is defaulted to modified and when speaking about an unmodified die, the card explicitly states that.
I'm not saying that is how it is intended to work, but thats how I am reading it now.
As austinmonster said, this is a cooperative game and you can rule it however you want. For me though, it makes it easier to hash out these rule issues early on so as the game grows, things are more clear.
Precisely!
Hi, after opening the can of worms that is the What is a die thread I had a moment of clarity last night which I've just typed up and published there.
Basically, QuantumNinja, I think you and I have been looking at this all wrong up until now...
I've explained this in more detail on the other thread but basically a Skill die is just the physical die.
So, if Lini's Strength on her character card is "1d4 + 2" and you change her "Strength die" to 1d10 this means that in step (4) of the check resolution you assemble 1d10 for your dice. In step (5) you roll that die then add ALL bonuses that apply to Strength, in this case "+2".
(Please read my full post about this to see what steps (4) and (5) are and the full explanation)
This separation of the "Assemble your dice" and "Make the roll [and add all bonuses that apply to the tested skill]" steps is what allows you to use your feats and bonuses. Not your previous definition of a "Strength die" being the "physical die and all bonuses on the character sheet", which I'm sorry to say is wrong.
P.S. I just reloaded the "What is a die" thread and saw that, thankfully, Mike has chimed in to say that I've got it figured out correctly. Hooray!
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Why is everyone thinking the modifier to the roll is now part of the 'die'? A die is a die. Period. If your STR is 1d4 and you double it, then you add another 1d4. Any modifiers you have added through adventuring are just that, modifiers to the total check. So if you have add +1 to STR, then your ROLL, not DIE, is 1d4+1. If you change the die from 1d4 to 1d10, then your ROLL is now 1d10+1. If you add a DIE, then you add 1d10 or 2d10 +1 for the total ROLL.
For me (and I think QuantumNinja too), it was unclear when you got to add the bonuses. Then I realised that you *always* add the bonuses relating to the skill you're testing.
I'll use QN to illustrate this (emphasis is mine):
The problem with this interpretation is that if you now always assume "Strength die" is referring to just the d4, and not the d4 + feat bonuses, then you almost never get to use your feat bonus.
For example,
Mace is "For you combat check, reveal this card to roll your Strength [die] or Melee die...". Well if I'm playing Valeros who's Strength is "1d10 + 4", but "Strength die" means "1d10" not "1d10 + 4", then the +4 bonus doesn't carry into the Mace's effect if I chose to make it a Strength check.
Similarly, if I'm Ezren playing Force Missile ("For your combat check, discard this card to roll your Arcane die")... Under your interpretation, my "Arcane die" is d12 (not d12 + 3 + any feat bonuses), so those bonuses wouldn't transfer into Force Missile.
It took a minor epiphany for me to realise that the "Skill Die" is JUST the die (in all situations I've found so far) and then, in the "Make your roll" step you add all the bonuses for the skill tested.
In another thread I also saw somebody mention that, in RPG terms (which I have no experience of) a 'die' is a physical die and a 'roll' is a die plus bonuses. This fits with what I've realised (and Mike's confirmed) and documented in the "What is a die?" thread.