Does Telepathy identify location, and does Greater Teleport provoke AoOs when cast as a spell-like ability?


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

The recent demon incursion in PFS has prompted a few rules clarifications, first does telepathy let the user know the location of everyone around them, specifically if the user cannot see them? Reading the description it doesn't seem like it would - the telepathy ability reads:

"Telepathy (Su)
The creature can mentally communicate with any other creature within a certain range (specified in the creature’s entry, usually 100 feet) that has a language. It is possible to address multiple creatures at once telepathically, although maintaining a telepathic conversation with more than one creature at a time is just as difficult as simultaneously speaking and listening to multiple people at the same time"

This doesn't mention location. Also detect thoughts, which is a very similar concept, specifically mentions that creatures cannot be located using the spell unless they can be seen.

Also, does using Greater Teleport as a spell-like (such as what demons have) provoke AoOs? Reading the below description makes it seem like they would:

"Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability's use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.

A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell"

I haven't seen anything that says they wouldn't provoke, and it seems like the AoO comes into play when the caster is distracted for the standard action it takes to cast the spell, but I have heard they don't provoke because they are only mental activation and that they don't provoke because Greater Teleport only has verbal components.

Can anyone provide insight into these? Thanks!

Grand Lodge

The answer is that there is no text support for the idea that telepathy can determine location.

IF you're thinking of running a Blind telepath as a PC. I strongly sugggest you reconsider that approach.

Scarab Sages

I'm not considering a blind telepath, both questions are based on demons who have been A) Ignoring blindness from Glitterdust to locate and attack people and B) Teleport out of compromising situations like grapple or flank (especially when they get low on HP so they go warn the BBEG)

Liberty's Edge

Re: Greater Teleport

Look at the action table in the Combat chapter. Spell-like abilities are standard actions that provoke AoO. Whether it is a mental action or not (basically meaning that it doesn't have components), is immaterial to whether an AoO is provoked.

Telepathy and location: I've been seeing some of this, and suspect that it is written into tactics, but haven't seen the adventures. I am unaware of any rules based reason that suggests telepathy has any association with locating anyone.

Grand Lodge

Vessias wrote:
I'm not considering a blind telepath, both questions are based on demons who have been A) Ignoring blindness from Glitterdust to locate and attack people and B) Teleport out of compromising situations like grapple or flank (especially when they get low on HP so they go warn the BBEG)

They might be "ignoring" blindness because they're saving against the effect. Glitterdust doesn't have a mega DC after all.

Scarab Sages

LazarX wrote:
They might be "ignoring" blindness because they're saving against the effect. Glitterdust doesn't have a mega DC after all.

If there had been rolling behind a screen I'd say that was an option, but this was PFS and pretty much everyone rolls in front of the screen (as was the case for all the times this came up).

Also even if there isn't hidden rolls I'd imagine it'd be pretty obvious when something is blind or not. "Is it flailing around or staggering about?" If the answer is yes then I bet it's blind. Reading thoughts doesn't tell you how to navigate uneven floor.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Telepathy in no ways allow you to know location unless the creature on the other end decides to specifically give you their location via the telepathy.

Detect Thoughts specifically says that it will not let you locate the creature unless you can see them, but you can still detect their thoughts even if they are invisible.

Yes, spell-like abilities draw attacks of opportunity.


Spell likes provoke, you let your guard down as you concentrate on casting it. Supernatural abilities that mimic spells don't though.

You cannot determine peoples location with telepathy, in fact they made a feat in Lords of Madness in 3.5 so you could do that. I believe it was called Mindsight.

Yes, there it is. Lords of Madness page 126. I'm not sure how much I can share because of copyright, but the last line is pretty much the answer you seek:

Normal

Telepathy offers no special ability to sense other minds. The creature has to know that a being is there to communicate with it telepathically.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

telepathy in PF is not a sense. it is a language. its listed as such. if it were a sense, maybe they could use it to determine location. but its not. it lets you communicate. I've run into some of this before, you have to remind the GM of this, frequently.


Glutton wrote:
You cannot determine peoples location with telepathy, in fact they made a feat in Lords of Madness in 3.5 D&D so you could do that. I believe it was called Mindsight.

I can confirm this as being true, since I too have the Lords of Madness 3.5e book.

Scarab Sages

Thanks all, nice to clear this up.


Maybe there were two demons and one of them saved vs the blind and used telepathy to guide the other one to the right square

-No you fool, a little more to the left. Yes, attack there-

Obviously the blind one is still moving at half speed and has a 50% miss chance. Also, most demons have good enough Perception to pinpoint a non-stealthing PC's square while blind even without this (but of course, still a 50% miss chance).

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