I would say yes. This is more about pushing your ally out of the way of an incoming attack. There is no offensive action being taken against an opponent.
- Gauss
Yeah. Invisibility only mentions being broken if you -directly attack- the enemy. It even lists an example of how you could cast Bless (a spell that aids your allies) without breaking its effects. Go for it.
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I would say yes. This is more about pushing your ally out of the way of an incoming attack. There is no offensive action being taken against an opponent.
- Gauss
so..
someone gets attacked and you have bodyguard and you are NOT ADJACENT so you can aid an ally's AC while staying invisible?
You're still not directly attacking the enemy, so I'd say no change from the previous circumstance.
From invisibility
The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature. For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe.
So the question becomes is Aid Another an attack against the creature? I don't believe it is.
In melee combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you're in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action. You make an attack roll against AC 10. If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to AC against that opponent's next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn. Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack.
It is an attack roll against a target AC of 10. The creatures AC, size, bonuses, penalties, etc do not affect this at all because it is not an attack against the creature.
Aid another also does not effect the foe (at least not directly), it effects your ally, either giving him a +2 to hit or a +2 to AC - but the effect is still only on the ally.
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bodyguard can't be used unless you're adjacent to your ally and you threaten the creature. James Jacobs isn't a "rules guy". he's made incorrect calls on the fly just like any GM. His advice is great, especially for calls in home games. But bodyguard lets you do the Aid Another action as a free/immediate action essentially. and the Aid Another action to someone's AC require you to threaten the enemy. Bodyguard adds on to that, and says the ally you're aiding has to be adjacent as well.
aid another can't be used unless you threaten the creature, but you don't need to be adjacent to your ally.
Bodyguard may be pushing your friend out of the way to raise his AC, but aid another is an attack roll, you can do it while flanking a creature and get a +2 to your attack roll (vs. ac 10). you're interfering with the enemy's actions, bumping him, throwing him off balance, to give you ally a bonus to AC.
i'd be iffy on bodyguard working and not breaking invisibility. ( the flavor text of bodyguard : "Your swift strikes ward off enemies attacking nearby allies." )
and Aid Another I think will break invisibility. its an attack roll just like a combat maneuver or a regular attack.
Seraphimpunk, in case it makes any difference, here is the authors intent (RAI).
In short, he intended that Bodyguard work regardless of whether you threaten the creature or not. The adjacent requirement is intended as a replacement for the normal Aid Another criteria.
- Gauss
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eh, good to know.
I don't know if i like it any more or less.
The bodyguard doesn't have to put himself in the danger at all ?
it just means that a character with this feat is going to stay bunched in the center of a group as often as possible to take advantage of a mechanic, since he doesn't need to get up front with an ally to protect them. Which is counterintuitive to what a Bodyguard would do, getting up front, interposing himself between danger.
whereas if he had to threaten the attacker, he'd want to be up in the front line too.
it creates situations, especially in dungeons, where you can put the tank up front, the bodyguard can't hit or be hit ( well, most that i've seen use reach weapons too , but anyway ). But he can boost the AC after i've already declared a hit. In games where the PCs already have high ACs, and its not a BBEG with a great to hit bonus, it does more to take the fun out of the combat than anything else since the tank can't be hit, the healer has nothing to heal, etc.
its nice to know the author's intent 3+ years later, but it wouldn't be the first time it ended up conflicting with the rules as they got written, or compounded by another change elsewhere.
Not after you declare a hit. You declare the attack and then he must decide to make the AoO roll to defend even you roll the dice.
I've played a bodyguard cleric (with a reach weapon) and frankly, I was right next to the tank just as often as I was behind him (I was also a curse build). I would rather trip people to prevent damage than to just use Bodyguard.
Also, my AoOs would run out a decent amount of the time since the tank can receive more attacks than I had AoOs.
Still, I definitely prevented a decent amount of damage this way. I prevented even more damage in later levels with my necromancy spells than I did with my Bodyguard feat. It is just not that big a deal in later levels unless you have the Benevolent property on your armor (and I refused to do that on principle).
- Gauss
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maybe i just deal with dick players then, that wait for me to confirm a critical on the tank, before they announce they're bumping the tank's AC. =P
But the RAI version does leave a significant advantage to staying behind the front line, where they can use an AoO to aid up to three front liners. or in the center, where they can hit everyone, barring fear of fireball formation. The mechanics of that run counter to the feat, even if good RP characters step up to the front line more often than not.
one or two AoOs per round is all you need, they reset every round, and unless you're fighting more than one opponent, or one with a horrendous hit combo, its enough to keep buffing the tank.
The rules are you must declare an AoO or not when the criteria occur. You cannot wait for the result of the criteria and THEN declare an AoO.
The GM should be offering an opportunity to declare an AoO before rolling dice.
The players should be trying to interject the AoO before the GM rolls dice.
As for the rest of your post, I am not sure I see a problem. There are teamwork feats that also allow you to bump up your buddies AC and you do not need to be up in the front line either.
As for 1-2 AoOs, I disagree. The tanks front is 3 squares. Even at low levels that is 3 attackers for 3 attacks in many situations. At higher levels the tank can suffer many attacks from multiple attackers. I often ran out of my AoOs and I had 4.
- Gauss
Oh, absolutely. But it is by no means guaranteed at low levels and at higher levels it is less effective. Having run this up (at +4 AC boost rather than a +2 AC boost) through mid levels it was definitely helpful at lower levels but not game breaking. At higher levels it was not as effective as I would have liked.
- Gauss