Lets say lem has a light crossbow, which says he can use a ranged or dexterity die. He uses his dexterity die, since he does not have ranged. He also has the Archer ally in hand, which grants a d4 to a ranged combat check. Does the ranged trait on the crossbow make it a ranged combat check?
There is also a goblin that deals ranged combat damage. Can an armor or shield that reduces just combat damage prevent this, in this case you would usually just need to recharge the card, or will you have to use the armors bury ability, which prevent all damage, since it is ranged combat damage rather than combat damage?
Here is the answer from Mike from a BGG thread.
Cards give their traits to checks using them*, so any character using a weapon with the Ranged trait is making a Ranged combat check. Lem doesn't have a Ranged die, so he doesn't get a Ranged bonus to his Dexterity check. But he does get to use his Dexterity die and the Archer's power.
The counterexample is the Night Watch. The Night Watch does not have a Perception trait. It allows a Perception check to be made, but it doesn't give *you* the Perception skill. Ezren has to use his d4 for the roll, but gets the Perception bonus from the Night Watch.
OK, so a "Ranged combat check" is a combat check with the ranged trait, not a "Ranged-based combat check". Thanks!
I would assume that it is going to be a range-based combat check or else you would not be able to play Blessing of Erestil while playing a weapon with the ranged trait. If this were the case the blessing would only work with Harsk, since he is the only one with the ranged skill. And i don't think the blessing is that limited.
Sorry, let me be clearer.
When I say an "XYZ-based check" I mean "a check where you have chosen XYZ (or a derivative skill) as the basis for the check".
Some examples:
- If you choose to test DEX you have a 'DEX-based check'.
- If it's combat you have a 'DEX-based combat check'.
- If you choose to test RANGED and your RANGED is "DEX + 2" then your check is both a "DEX-based combat check" and a "RANGED-based combat check"
(Having written that down, I'm now a bit uncertain as to whether the game only ever refers to "STAT-based" checks rather than "SKILL-based" ones... will have to check some time!)
So... my comment above meant:
OK, so when a boon interacts with a "Ranged combat check" it means any combat check with the "ranged" trait in it, not one where you have chosen to set "RANGED" as the base skill for a check. In other words, characters without the RANGED skill can still use such boons by playing bows (or other boons) that add the "ranged" trait to a check.
-- I'm glad we've got that sorted ;) --
As for Erastil, it adds 2 dice to a "Dexterity-based combat check". It doesn't matter whether the ranged trait is in the check or not, or even if you're using your RANGED skill (so long as that skill is listed on your card under DEX).
Yeah, sorry about the confusion with the blessing. I needed to look at the card.
Hmm, I must have somehow missed this thread. Glad it got bumped up :)
This sorta relates to a question I raised on BGG a few days ago.
My question was basically this: When you play Wand of Force Missile for a combat check, does it make it an Arcane check (and also a "Force" check...)? If so, does a character with an Arcane modifier (e.g. Ezren) get to apply it to their check when using the wand?
Text on Wand of Force Missile: "For your combat check, bury this card to roll 4d4 with the Arcane and Force traits."
Based on Mike's response regarding the Ranged trait and Ranged checks, I think the answer is that using Wand of Force Missile *does* make it an Arcane check.
However, I'm still not sure whether Arcane modifiers would apply in this case. On the one hand, it sorta makes thematic sense. Ezren has more knowledge about all things arcane, so it make sense if he can squeeze more damage out of the wand than a character with no knowledge of the arcane.
On the other hand, I think it sets a strange precedent for the balance of the game. Because if you follow down this path logically, whenever you play a Blessing during a check for a character with a Divine modifier, they should get to apply that modifier (all Blessings have the Divine trait, so they should make all checks into "Divine checks" when played). This would make Blessings exceptionally good for characters with the Divine skill.
I want to say that you only get to apply your skill modifiers when something tells you to "roll your [skill] die". I'm not entirely sure on that, though.
@Quantum: As far as I understand it, the wand has NO base skill, you just roll 4d4. It's a 'gun' that any (unskilled) person can pick up, point and shoot. And, being a 'blunt instrument', there's no way to make it better through skill (but you can still play blessings to add extra d4s).
The damage it causes (the attack itself) has the Arcane and Force TRAITS, but you do NOT add arcane bonuses or anything else.
Using a weapon with the Ranged trait does NOT allow you to add your ranged bonuses in itself. You need to choose to base the check on your RANGED skill to get any skill bonuses.
How do you choose to just make something a ranged attack? (sorry very late and very tired)
I would think that any time you choose to use a ranged weapon it would become a ranged attack? (I thought all ranged weapons had shift to Dex or ranged instead of Str.)
I have not opened the expansion yet, so I am only trying to remember basic box cards.
E.g. if you have both DEX and RANGED skills on your character card you have the choice of which of them you want to use as the (sole) base for your check when you use a bow.
Chief Technical Officer
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@Quantum: As far as I understand it, the wand has NO base skill, you just roll 4d4. It's a 'gun' that any (unskilled) person can pick up, point and shoot. And, being a 'blunt instrument', there's no way to make it better through skill (but you can still play blessings to add extra d4s).
The damage it causes (the attack itself) has the Arcane and Force TRAITS, but you do NOT add arcane bonuses or anything else.
Using a weapon with the Ranged trait does NOT allow you to add your ranged bonuses in itself. You need to choose to base the check on your RANGED skill to get any skill bonuses.
All correct.
It's C. You are correct.
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The weapon doesn't give the trait. The weapon doesn't require the trait. The weapon specifically says to use your dex OR ranged, plus the weapon's bonus.
I hadn't noticed before that the archer does affect your ranged combat attack only. Not using ranged characters much, I hadn't used that ally yet. So it doesn't help unless you have the ranged skill, and are using it. Thus, the correct answer is A. Which kinda sucks.
We're aware that there's a potential clarification needed on my perhaps overly general statement "Cards give their traits to checks." We hope to have a clearer answer very soon.
@Starslayer - until Mike comes back and clarifies his "cards give their traits to checks" comment I will go with (C).
AFAIK, using the bow makes it a "Ranged combat check" (i.e. a combat check with the Ranged trait) so you can then use the Archer.
To clarify, if a character who doesn't have Perception makes a d4-based Perception check using Night Watch (which doesn't contain the Perception trait), then this use of Perception does not carry the Perception trait? :)
To clarify, if a character who doesn't have Perception makes a d4-based Perception check using Night Watch (which doesn't contain the Perception trait), then this use of Perception does not carry the Perception trait? :)
Yes.
To clarify, if a character who doesn't have Perception makes a d4-based Perception check using Night Watch (which doesn't contain the Perception trait), then this use of Perception does not carry the Perception trait? :)Yes.
Mike/Vic - can you help us out here with some kind of generalisation (even if it's TBC)?
In particular...
A) If you use a skill from your character sheet, then is that skill [and its base skill, if any] added as trait(s) to the check? (Or are they explicitly NOT added?)
B) If you use a skill not listed on your character sheet (e.g. the perception example listed above) it seems this skill is NOT added to the check as a trait?
C) Does use of Seoni's power trigger the "Spell with Arcane trait" bit of the Thassilonian location? It counts as a spell and, if the skills are added as traits, then it would satisfy the trait bit too. I think...?
To clarify, if a character who doesn't have Perception makes a d4-based Perception check using Night Watch (which doesn't contain the Perception trait), then this use of Perception does not carry the Perception trait? :)Yes.Mike/Vic - can you help us out here with some kind of generalisation (even if it's TBC)?
In particular...
A) If you use a skill from your character sheet, then is that skill [and its base skill, if any] added as trait(s) to the check? (Or are they explicitly NOT added?)
B) If you use a skill not listed on your character sheet (e.g. the perception example listed above) it seems this skill is NOT added to the check as a trait?
C) Does use of Seoni's power trigger the "Spell with Arcane trait" bit of the Thassilonian location? It counts as a spell and, if the skills are added as traits, then it would satisfy the trait bit too. I think...?
You might as well add this to the thread on do skills add traits, to try and keep it all in one place. When I read Mike's answer I made the connections and asked the same questions you did. This seems like the next hot topic, and i think it will be good to iron out, because I assume future scenarios will bring this issue to light again.
@Tracker1: If there's an official answer either here or on the Do skills add traits to checks thread then I'll cross-post the answer so people can see it whichever thread they stumble across.