[Crit range with a 50 strength is better than claws. Claws crit on a 19-20 with Improved Crit. A Kukri crits on a 15-20. Static bonuses add up at higher level. So critting a ton will up damage even against DR. Natural weapons seem cool at low level. They are generally weaker at higher level when static bonuses are higher and crit range becomes more important.
I think I counted out 8 arms. The first arm gets 3 attacks plus 7 attacks from the other kukris. Hasted is 11 attacks. All doing 2d6 with enlarge person with a roughly 50 str crittin on a 15-20.
A claw might do 3d6+25 critting on a 19-20 for a maximum of 6 attacks and usually a bite.
Whereas a multi-armed guy will do the 11 attacks for 1d8+25 critting 15-20. The crit damage will add up.
The AoMF would be much cheaper. Since I'm making my guy a Crafter I will focus almost all my coin weapons.
So with a +15 BAB and a 50 Str and Large(-1 to hit)you are looking at:
+32/+27/+27/+27/+27/+27/+27/+27/+27/+22 - For 1d8 + 15
Vs.
+34/+34/+34/+34/+34/+34/+34 - With improved NA for 3d6 + 25
You have a chance (A chance) to deal 5 more damage with each attack, get 4 extra attacks, but with less chance to hit, lower base weapon damage, and half the str bonus. I haven't done the hard math but that sounds terrible.
Now even being a crafter your looking at 25k a dagger. Thats 270,000 gold of your 880,000 max. Not to mention the 550 days of crafting... for a better crit range and 4 extra attacks that suffer from a lower chance to hit in the first place.
Those extra evolution points could be used on more STR, going Huge, ect. The gold could be used to buy magic items that cant beef up the damage in other ways and add utility. Its a cool concept though. And while not the most optimized its at least a build that on paper works to be close to a NA pet. The logistics though of all that gold and time... I dont see it being that easy in a real game compared to a Natural Attacker you just pick feats...
Where are you getting that from? He is huge. One of the feats he will get is Double Slice. So none of his off-hand attack will be at half strength.
Damage at lvl 20 should be:
1d8+25 per attack with a 15-20 crit range.
To hit roll should be: +15 BAB +20 str -2 size +1 MW Kukri -2 Multi-weapon fighting = +32 prior to buffing.
Attack sequence will be:
+32/+27/+22
+32 x 7
1d8+25 with Arcane Strike prior to buffing.
Where are you getting your numbers from?
Do no forget to include:
Multi-weapon Fighting
Double Slice( MW Fighting Counts as two-weapon fighting prereqs. So you can use it to get Double Slice)
If I do spend that coin and all those days.
My hit roll will be:
+37/+32/+27
+37 x7
1d8+30 per hand
Crit range: 15-20/x2
This is prior to buffing with heroism and haste. I will fast build the weapons over the course of the entire adventure. I intend to build up my Spellcraft, so I can but my time in two.
...[Crit range with a 50 strength is better than claws. Claws crit on a 19-20 with Improved Crit. A Kukri crits on a 15-20. Static bonuses add up at higher level. So critting a ton will up damage even against DR. Natural weapons seem cool at low level. They are generally weaker at higher level when static bonuses are higher and crit range becomes more important.
I think I counted out 8 arms. The first arm gets 3 attacks plus 7 attacks from the other kukris. Hasted is 11 attacks. All doing 2d6 with enlarge person with a roughly 50 str crittin on a 15-20.
A claw might do 3d6+25 critting on a 19-20 for a maximum of 6 attacks and usually a bite.
Whereas a multi-armed guy will do the 11 attacks for 1d8+25 critting 15-20. The crit damage will add up.
The AoMF would be much cheaper. Since I'm making my guy a Crafter I will focus almost all my coin weapons.
So with a +15 BAB and a 50 Str and Large(-1 to hit)you are looking at:
+32/+27/+27/+27/+27/+27/+27/+27/+27/+22 - For 1d8 + 15
Vs.
+34/+34/+34/+34/+34/+34/+34 - With improved NA for 3d6 + 25
You have a chance (A chance) to deal 5 more damage with each attack, get 4 extra attacks, but with less chance to hit, lower base weapon damage, and half the str bonus. I haven't done the hard math but that sounds terrible.
Now even being a crafter your looking at 25k a dagger. Thats 270,000 gold of your 880,000 max. Not to mention the 550 days of crafting... for a better crit range and 4 extra attacks that suffer from a lower chance to hit in the first place.
Those extra evolution points could be used on more STR, going Huge, ect. The gold could be used to buy magic items that cant beef up the damage in other ways and add utility. Its a cool concept though. And while not the most optimized its at least a build that on paper works to be close to a NA pet. The logistics though of all that gold and time... I dont see it being that easy in a real game compared to a
No. I do not. For PFS I would go with some of the other recommendations. This is a build for a home campaign with flexibility.
|
Artanthos your are losing this argument every step you take. No one puts armor on an Eidolon because per RAW when you do that...poof goes your life link, so even mentioning that is pointless. It still comes down to anything the Biped can do the Quadruped can do if not the same better and oh yeah i get a full attack (pounce) and you dont. Nothing you have put out there comes close to overcoming that move +full attack. And yes rough terrain happens but its not as common as you are making it sound by any stretch of the imagination
Improved Natural Armor is an evolution.
It can be taken at 1st, 5th and 10th levels.
|
|
also if you take fly on your Eidolon.... all of this terrain nonsense goes away and nothing says you cant fly charge then pounce, which i would definitely build if i were going quad. Quad is just better....currently. They need to find a way to balance that little fact.
You can charge while flying, but you cannot turn.
If you start on the ground and have to fly over allies, your straight line is angled upwards.
|
|
Where are you getting that from? He is huge.
The problem with huge is, he won't fit in most dungeons. At a bare minimum he's squeezing in a 10' wide corridor and he cannot even crawl down a 5' wide corridor.
Huge is very impressive on paper, but fails during any campaign that spends a lot of time indoors.
PFS spends a lot of time indoors.
Where are you getting that from? He is huge.The problem with huge is, he won't fit in most dungeons. At a bare minimum he's squeezing in a 10' wide corridor and he cannot even crawl down a 5' wide corridor.
Huge is very impressive on paper, but fails during any campaign that spends a lot of time indoors.
PFS spends a lot of time indoors.
True. I had to take reduce person to counter the huge. I was planning to make a magic item that does reduce person at will. You lose only 2 points of strength for the +8 bonus. It's worth spending the coin for the item.
The item will be like horseshoes of zephyr. Something I can put on the Eidolon or he can activate.
Something I would like to know: What do you do with the Summoner character? What does he do? Do you just buff your Eidolon? Does he add to damage?
My current plan for my summoner is to go with either buff or summon on the first round, followed by archery beyond that. The summons will likely be little more than speedbumps until she can get ones with good SLAs considering she isn't taking Augment Summoning or Superior Summons.
The item will be like horseshoes of zephyr. Something I can put on the Eidolon or he can activate.The eidolon is not a legal target for Reduce Person.
Only the eidolon's Share Spells ability allows the summoner to cast Reduce Person on it.
Horseshoes of the Zephyr have nothing to do with reduce person?
|
|
Horseshoes of the Zephyr have nothing to do with reduce person?The item will be like horseshoes of zephyr. Something I can put on the Eidolon or he can activate.The eidolon is not a legal target for Reduce Person.
Only the eidolon's Share Spells ability allows the summoner to cast Reduce Person on it.
Raith was discussing the manufacture of a pair of horseshoes with Reduce Person as an activated spell.
Horseshoes of the Zephyr have nothing to do with reduce person?Raith was discussing the manufacture of a pair of horseshoes with Reduce Person as an activated spell.
Ahh! I see now, Morning grog's still got me. Yeah, the eidolon is an outsider and because of that the summoner needs to cast that particular spell to work. Custom items are legal for PFS anyway.
So... did we fly off topic?
Horribly
Hey! I agree with you. That happens now and then.
Anyways, would it be safe to say you can build a capable biped but its pretty simple to drop a single point into the pounce evolution and make a great quadruped?
Where are you getting that from? He is huge. One of the feats he will get is Double Slice. So none of his off-hand attack will be at half strength. Damage at lvl 20 should be:
1d8+25 per attack with a 15-20 crit range.To hit roll should be: +15 BAB +20 str -2 size +1 MW Kukri -2 Multi-weapon fighting = +32 prior to buffing.
Attack sequence will be:
+32/+27/+22
+32 x 71d8+25 with Arcane Strike prior to buffing.
Where are you getting your numbers from?
Do no forget to include:
Multi-weapon Fighting
Double Slice( MW Fighting Counts as two-weapon fighting prereqs. So you can use it to get Double Slice)If I do spend that coin and all those days.
My hit roll will be:
+37/+32/+27
+37 x7
1d8+30 per hand
Crit range: 15-20/x2This is prior to buffing with heroism and haste. I will fast build the weapons over the course of the entire adventure. I intend to build up my Spellcraft, so I can but my time in two.
My mistake. didnt see the Double Slice. That helps slightly. And I must have been suffering from lack of sleep when I figured out the attack routine. Either way... A few points on your reply.
Arcane Strike and Haste can be used with Natural Attacks so that doesn't matter.
Whether your are large, huge, or small. You have a -2 to attack from using Multi-weapon fighting. One attack is at a -7 and another -14. You do get 10 attacks (11 with haste) but I would assume your going to get more misses. A normal Natural Attacker gets 7 attacks (8 with haste) but they are all at his highest BAB with no negatives. Not only that you can use abilities like Grapple and Rend which dont count against your attack count. Rend alone adds the potential for 3 (4 with haste) additional attacks at Claw damage + 1 1/2 Str. So you both have the potential for 11 attacks to hit your foe. Your only advantage at that point is a better crit range (meh).
Lets assume you have the gold and time to make the daggers. You will still gain the +5 AoMF long before you get the gold to enchant 8 Daggers (I said 11 earlier cause of the attacks. Attacks =/= number of daggers... another mistake on my part due to lack of sleep lol). So your + to hit will be higher as you level.
I do like the build. It would be fun to see in play. I still cant see spending that amount of gold and time as a reasonable expectation in most games. You would need a very flexible GM who throws balance to the winds. At that point you might as well try and use those weapons AND your natural attacks. If you can add claws you can use them as Secondary Attacks at a -5. Thats 16 attacks a round with haste(Or 21 attacks a round with Haste and Rend).
|
|
ok but every Eidolon can take that. 2 point of armor or pounce.....i doubt anyone would not take pounce given that choice option.
My PFS eidolon's evolutions at 1st level
1. pounce
2. claws
3. improved natural armor
2nd level
4. fire resistance
3rd level
5. climb
Feats: improved initiative, iron will
After this weekend, she will be 4th level and her eidolon will pick up ability increase: strength.
My PFS synthesist was a biped (angel themed). No pounce. Used a Katana.
So for PFS it seems like quadruped or bust? Or am I not following this properly?
It means you could make a biped but you'd likely burn resources and have to put a lot of effort into it and you'd never be able to full attack and move more than 10 feet during the round, which is a pretty big thing. Your also stuck getting a multi-armed mutant. Blame the game.
The item will be like horseshoes of zephyr. Something I can put on the Eidolon or he can activate.The eidolon is not a legal target for Reduce Person.
Only the eidolon's Share Spells ability allows the summoner to cast Reduce Person on it.
It would be a use-activated item activated by the Eidolon. It has intelligence. It can use magic items itself. I create a specialized item that allows a creature to use reduce person on itself and give it to the eidolon.
Where are you getting that from? He is huge. One of the feats he will get is Double Slice. So none of his off-hand attack will be at half strength. Damage at lvl 20 should be:
1d8+25 per attack with a 15-20 crit range.To hit roll should be: +15 BAB +20 str -2 size +1 MW Kukri -2 Multi-weapon fighting = +32 prior to buffing.
Attack sequence will be:
+32/+27/+22
+32 x 71d8+25 with Arcane Strike prior to buffing.
Where are you getting your numbers from?
Do no forget to include:
Multi-weapon Fighting
Double Slice( MW Fighting Counts as two-weapon fighting prereqs. So you can use it to get Double Slice)If I do spend that coin and all those days.
My hit roll will be:
+37/+32/+27
+37 x7
1d8+30 per hand
Crit range: 15-20/x2This is prior to buffing with heroism and haste. I will fast build the weapons over the course of the entire adventure. I intend to build up my Spellcraft, so I can but my time in two.
My mistake. didnt see the Double Slice. That helps slightly. And I must have been suffering from lack of sleep when I figured out the attack routine. Either way... A few points on your reply.
Arcane Strike and Haste can be used with Natural Attacks so that doesn't matter.
Whether your are large, huge, or small. You have a -2 to attack from using Multi-weapon fighting. One attack is at a -7 and another -14. You do get 10 attacks (11 with haste) but I would assume your going to get more misses. A normal Natural Attacker gets 7 attacks (8 with haste) but they are all at his highest BAB with no negatives. Not only that you can use abilities like Grapple and Rend which dont count against your attack count. Rend alone adds the potential for 3 (4 with haste) additional attacks at Claw damage + 1 1/2 Str. So you both have the potential for 11 attacks to hit your foe. Your only advantage at that point is a better crit range (meh).
Lets assume you have the gold and time to make the daggers. You will still gain the +5 AoMF long before you get the gold...
If I do the build, I'm going to make it from the essence of that multi-armed Titan. Hekatonkheires. Then at least it will sort of make sense.
Horseshoes of the Zephyr have nothing to do with reduce person?Raith was discussing the manufacture of a pair of horseshoes with Reduce Person as an activated spell.
Ahh! I see now, Morning grog's still got me. Yeah, the eidolon is an outsider and because of that the summoner needs to cast that particular spell to work. Custom items are legal for PFS anyway.
So... did we fly off topic?
PFS does or doesn't allow custom items?
PFS does or doesn't allow custom items?
Does not allow, pardon my wake up typing. PFS is up to level 12, no custom items, and has various other rules. No synth, nor broodmaster is another rule.