Mounted Combat and Druids


Rules Questions

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

I did a search and read several threads but the answers weren't always complete and there was disagreement on some points. Plus a lot were old, going all the way back to 2009. So here we go.

I want a druid that rides an allosaurus. Because that is essentially the definition of awesome. It seems that, in large part, the mounted combat rules were developed without much thought given to the mount itself and therein lies a lot of my confusion. Because I really care about what my super awesome mount does.

1. Who's charging and does it matter? If my druid, mounted on the allosaurus, charges does the allosaurus get to pounce? If my allosaurus charges does the druid get to use Spirited Charge? Or are they both charging?

2. The allosaurus will probably have Improved Overrun, Greater Overrun, and maybe Elephant Stomp. If they charge do we both have to overrun the target of the charge? Or can the allosaurus overrun and the druid spirited charges? Does the druid provoke an AoO because he doesn't have Improved Overrun?

3. If the druid takes the feat Aspect of the Beast to get claws, does it work with Spirited Charge? Spirited Charge specifically says melee weapon. Are claws in that category or does it need to be a wielded weapon?

I'm sure I'm forgetting something but that'll do to start us off.

Dark Archive

Really? Nothing? Do you guys just hate mounted combat?

While I'm here, a totally off topic question. An 8th level druid with claws casts Greater Magic Fang on each of his claws to give them each a +2 enhancement bonus. He then wildshapes into something with two claw attacks. Does the bonus continue?

What if he used GMF the other way to just give +1 to all natural attacks?


Mounted combat rules were mostly developed with the idea of riding a four-legged horse, not riding a giant lizard who runs on two legs and has two free arms with claws to also attack with.

I've seen some discussion before on these boards about charging and I believe the consensus was that if the mount charges, the rider may or may not charge at the same time. I've even seen some interpretations that a rider can full attack while the mount is charging. I would take that up with your GM though. I don't believe the rider can charge if the mount is not charging.

I don't even have any idea of how to answer your question #2. These are the sorts of things that don't tend to come up in my games.

Natural weapons are, I believe, listed as melee weapons so I believe they would work with spirited charge, assuming all your other issues are resolved to allow spirited charge while on top of a 13ft tall rampaging overrunning, elephant stomping lizard.

I think a pure RAW ruling on GMF on your druid's claws would not work once you wild shape since it is cast on a specfic natural weapon, and the wildshape provides different claws than the claws your druid has from aspect of the beast. As the GM I would probably rule that the GMF works on your new claws. I am assuming your druid lacks natural spell, or you could just wait until you wild shape to cast it.

Dark Archive

Thank you, fellow dragon.

The more I think about this, the more ambiguous it seems. I wish Paizo would do a blog entry on mounted combat like they did with stealth.


Well, I think that once you start viewing mounted combat as a system which has to address everything from a gnome riding a dog to a pouncing lion riding a hippogriff, it becomes quite difficult to figure out how basic mounted combat rules can possibly cover all the bases. Heck, there are major gaps in the fundamental concept of FLYING combat, much less combat between creatures riding other flying creatures.

This is one of the problems with highly specific rules for every conceivable combat situation. The more rules you add to cover specific situations, the more questions come up in how the rules synergize with other rules.

I have a high level hippogriff riding archer ranger and I can tell you that something as basic as that creates all sorts of special rulings in combat.

Dark Archive

I don't know that this is, in fact, all that specific. Sure, an allosaurus has two claws and a bite, but a warhorse has two hooves and a bite, too. And since the core book came out, mounts from druids and paladins have been able to get feats. Paladins with the divine bond's steed option get companions with Int 6 so they were out of the box getting any feat they could conceivably do.

This is really less of a corner case than the whole dinosaur bit makes it seem.


YuenglingDragon wrote:

I don't know that this is, in fact, all that specific. Sure, an allosaurus has to claws and a bite, but a warhorse has two hooves and a bite, too. And since the core book came out, mounts from druids and paladins have been able to get feats. Paladins with the divine bond's steed option get companions with Int 6 so they were out of the box getting any feat they could conceivably do.

This is really less of a corner case than the whole dinosaur bit makes it seem.

I agree that riding an allosaurus is closer to the intent of mount rules than riding a pterodactyl, but once you start adding all the feats you've listed, both for the allosaurus and your druid, I would say that it is a corner case.

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