Mythic rules question: inconsistancy between Archmage and Hierophant power activations

[Matrix Dragon]

Pathfinder Design Team wrote:

New FAQ: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1gl#v5748eaic9r83

Thanks for the FAQ!

I'm guessing that it is safe to assume that Arcane Surge and Recalled blessing should both be standard action limitations as well?

[LazarX]

Artanthos wrote:

I could see an arcane caster dual-pathing just to get the hierophant version.

You all don't seem to get it.

It may say that the Arcane version requires a swift action.

The fact that the Hierophant version does not specify means THAT IT REQUIRES A STANDARD ACTION.

[pluvia33]

Pathfinder Design Team wrote:

New FAQ: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1gl#v5748eaic9r83

Why do the "inspired spell" and "wild arcana" path abilities have slightly different rules text?

These two abilities should function the same and (other than they affect divine or arcane spells) have identical rules text. They also need some clarification about what spells you can cast with either of these path abilities.

The proposed text for these two abilities (pending an official errata of the Mythic Adventures book) is:

Inspired Spell (Su): As a standard action, you can expend one use of mythic power to cast any one divine spell without expending a prepared spell or spell slot. The spell must be on one of your divine class spell lists (or your domain or mystery spell list), must be of a level that you can cast with that divine spellcasting class, and must have a casting time of "1 standard action" (or less). You don’t need to have the spell prepared, nor does it need to be on your list of spells known. When casting a spell in this way, you treat your caster level as 2 levels higher for the purpose of any effect dependent on level. You can apply any metamagic feats you know to this spell, but its total adjusted level can’t be greater than that of the highest-level divine spell you can cast from that spellcasting class.

Wild Arcana (Su): As a standard action, you can expend one use of mythic power to cast any one arcane spell without expending a prepared spell or spell slot. The spell must be on one of your arcane class spell lists, must be of a level that you can cast with that arcane spellcasting class, and must have a casting time of "1 standard action" (or less). You don’t need to have the spell prepared, nor does it need to be on your list of spells known. When casting a spell in this way, you treat your caster level as 2 levels higher for the purpose of any effect dependent on level. You can apply any metamagic feats you know to this spell, but its total adjusted level can’t be greater than that of the highest-level arcane spell you can cast from that spellcasting class.

Sorry to bring this thread back, but I found it when searching for what kind of action Inspired Spell should be. Personally, I don't like how these abilities have been re-written. Yes, my mythic magus will be sad that she can't use Wild Arcana as a swift action anymore, but I think that is perfectly reasonable. I just don't like how these abilities are FORCED into a standard action now and restricted to "1 standard action" (or less) casting time. I think it would be better (in a flexibility kind of way) if the activation of the ability was a free action, but you had to then cast the spell as normal with its listed casting time. This would let Feather Fall be cast in a pinch if it's not prepared or known. Let the cleric cast Restoration a few extra times after a particularly vicious fight when you know there will be more to come. And let a crucial lower level spell be cast as a swift action, if the caster has Quicken Spell. The way it is written now could also cause some problems when trying to use a magus' spell combat with Wild Arcana. I would like to see them re-worded to something like this:

Inspired Spell (Su): As a free action, you can expend one use of mythic power to cast any one divine spell without expending a prepared spell or spell slot. The spell must be on one of your divine class spell lists (or your domain or mystery spell list), must be of a level that you can cast with that divine spellcasting class, and you must still expend the spell's normal casting time (unless modified by the Quicken Spell feat). You don’t need to have the spell prepared, nor does it need to be on your list of spells known. When casting a spell in this way, you treat your caster level as 2 levels higher for the purpose of any effect dependent on level. You can apply any metamagic feats you know to this spell, but its total adjusted level can’t be greater than that of the highest-level divine spell you can cast from that spellcasting class. This does not increase the casting time when spontaneously casting spells.

Wild Arcana (Su): As a free action, you can expend one use of mythic power to cast any one arcane spell without expending a prepared spell or spell slot. The spell must be on one of your arcane class spell lists, must be of a level that you can cast with that arcane spellcasting class, and you must still expend the spell's normal casting time (unless modified by the Quicken Spell feat). You don’t need to have the spell prepared, nor does it need to be on your list of spells known. When casting a spell in this way, you treat your caster level as 2 levels higher for the purpose of any effect dependent on level. You can apply any metamagic feats you know to this spell, but its total adjusted level can’t be greater than that of the highest-level arcane spell you can cast from that spellcasting class. This does not increase the casting time when spontaneously casting spells.

Matrix Dragon wrote:

I'm guessing that it is safe to assume that Arcane Surge and Recalled blessing should both be standard action limitations as well?

It is strange that a re-wording hasn't been done for these as well. You can apply the same re-wording above to these abilities (aside from the metamagic part).

Anyway, it's just a thought. Hope this doesn't come off as rude or anything like that.

[Palanore]

I'm asking the same question about Recalled Blessing. I got mythical in the last game and it seems that Recalled Blessing is not specified as a free action, a swift action, a move action or a standart action. That makes all the diference. If it does not count as an action at all, its incredibly overpowered in comparison with Inspired Spell.

Arcane Surge follows the same path. If its still quicken, sounds much more powerfull than Wild Arcana since you can use a free quicken spell of any level you can cast before action takes place, and forcing the target to make a double roll for save taking the worst result.

[Gulthor]

Good luck getting any kind of official fix for any mythic anything.

That said, our group has ruled that Inspired Spell/Wild Arcana takes a standard action (allowing you to cast any spell from your class list),and Recalled Blessing/Arcane Surge cost a swift (allowing you to cast a spell you already know or have prepared.)

Despite the faster action of Recalled/Surge, the extra versatility provided by Inspired/Wild is absolutely incredible and should not be underestimated.

[GM Rednal]

They had a FAQ/Errata on this subject. XD Wild Arcana and Inspired Spell were set to Standard Actions (and to spells that didn't take longer than a Standard Action to cast).

[Palanore]

How about Recalled Blessing. What kind of action (if there is an action at all) does it take?

[GM Rednal]

It takes a Standard Action. Recalled Blessing is a Supernatural Ability, and per the table for Actions in Combat, Supernatural Abilities are Standard Actions unless they specifically state otherwise.

[Palanore]

So, Recalled Blessing is undeniably worst than Inspired Spell and totally overwhelmed by Arcane Surge, that is alike but quicken? O.o

[Gulthor]

Palanore wrote:

So, Recalled Blessing is undeniably worst than Inspired Spell and totally overwhelmed by Arcane Surge, that is alike but quicken? O.o

I would highly encourage your DM to implement the same adjustments our group has made.

There's no reason Recalled Blessing should require a standard action compared to Arcane Surge (especially when it's weaker than Arcane Surge anyway, since rolling twice to overcome SR is certainly a bigger benefit than rolling twice and taking the better result on healing.)

The FAQ indicates that Wild Arcana should have had the same action type as Inspired Spell; the same logic can be extended to Recalled Blessing that it would be equivalent to Arcane Surge.

However, if your DM prefers to run with Rules-as-Omitted, you'll be extremely pleased with Inspired Spell anyway. It's extremely good.

Our group has also ruled away the whole divine/arcane component from Archmage and Heirophant anyway (since they leave new psychic casters in the lurch.)

We changed Archmage so that when you take it, you choose whether the Archmage abilities apply to arcane spells or to extracts (since the Archmage has abilities that refer to extracts, it seemed clear to us that whoever wrote it forgot that alchemists aren't arcane) and so that when you choose Heirophant, you choose whether its abilities apply to divine or psychic spells (at least until they create a psychic mythic path, which I won't hold my breath for.)