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A Pathfinder, is an explorer, a pioneer, a scout or a guide...
do you think an adventurer needs a radar on the right corner indicating creatures, resources or others players like on others MMO ?
On the same way does a full map will be available on the release ?
I'm not sure this is necessarly requierments for such a sandbox which make yourself an adventurer in the middle of a big wild world.
i'll be more excited if i can add marks to my personnal map when i find a settlement, a cavern, some ressources spots, or long term quest informations... or having the luck to find a scrollmap indicating a lair, a camp or a little dongeon. And we could share these informations with allies or guild companions for example, and make secret the localisation of others...
To resume, i want longtime adventures, search for things i'm interest in, and not artificial help to find my way...
any suggestion?
(sorry but my english is'nt correct)
Goblin Squad Member
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This i believe may give you some hope:
I would really like there to be a huge system for map manipulation. So rather than selling a map to another person, you'd sell them information that you've gathered and it would appear on their map. Your character's map would be a way of keeping a whole lot of information organized.
So it seems that the goal is for exploration to be real and for explorers to have unique information that can later be shared (sold or free) with others.
If this ends up being a feature, it will be a unique one in my knowledge of many, many MMOs.
I hope they do it, and put it in trial during EE.
woot ! it looks like being a great news for adventurers, and explorers involved in the world environment discover.
I hope Ryan keep this feature for release. This guy is creating the game i want to play !
for my part, i consider radar is like a GPS :
when you go somewhere with it, you never remember the path you choosed, even not the lanscape around you, you're like a blind man, so it has no importance for who wants to be IN the world.
But i admit it's now became an usual UI Tool for themepark MMO, but if you got a map, no need of it
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Goblin Squad Member
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This i believe may give you some hope:
I would really like there to be a huge system for map manipulation. So rather than selling a map to another person, you'd sell them information that you've gathered and it would appear on their map. Your character's map would be a way of keeping a whole lot of information organized.So it seems that the goal is for exploration to be real and for explorers to have unique information that can later be shared (sold or free) with others.
If this ends up being a feature, it will be a unique one in my knowledge of many, many MMOs.
I hope they do it, and put it in trial during EE.
I'm really hoping there's space for this in the game without the likes of Curse or Thottbot making it academic for all but those who refuse to use them (i.e me but I am sure there will be others). While I would love explorers like Kenshi and myself to be able to reap a benefit from wandering around in the wilderness, exploring and getting mercilessly killed by the likes of Bluddwolf and Xeen :-), I don't believe that it'll be practical, unless there's a way to mark maps with new spawns of resources and/or dungeons. If that's the case then I'll be a very happy camper...
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Goblin Squad Member
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I wonder if the devs could choose wild hexes and sometimes randomly perform a new procedural generation on them? If players had some activity, keep their relative positions of operations the same or otherwise.
That would be neat trick to pull - as well as the explorers adding value to their maps by exploring.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm really hoping there's space for this in the game without the likes of Curse or Thottbot making it academic for all but those who refuse to use them (i.e me but I am sure there will be others). While I would love explorers like Kenshi and myself to be able to reap a benefit from wandering around in the wilderness, exploring and getting mercilessly killed by the likes of Bluddwolf and Xeen :-), I don't believe that it'll be practical, unless there's a way to mark maps with new spawns of resources and/or dungeons. If that's the case then I'll be a very happy camper...
I was going to say, the biggest value in exploring I imagine will be the non-permanant changing details. Things that can be mapped once and forgotten, you can pretty much guarantee they will be listed. whether it takes 15 people 2 hours per hex, either bots or just organized people will certainly do the project to make the ultimate wiki.
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Goblin Squad Member
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[While I would love explorers like Kenshi and myself to be able to reap a benefit from wandering around in the wilderness, exploring and getting mercilessly killed by the likes of Bluddwolf and Xeen :-)
We have absolutely no intentions of mercilessly killing anyone, but especially not explorer / cartographers.
We are bandits searching for fat merchants and caravans running heavy on their suspension.
Also, I also have a mind to playing an alt that travels the world, exploring and gather herbs to make natural remedies. He will freely give these to those who are in need. If he is SADed by bandits, he will freely offer them. If they kill him instead of SADing him, he will freely offer them praise instead of rebuke, but explain that they could have just asked. Eventually they will learn, if they ask they will receive the same, without violence, and receive double reputation for it. This is how my LG Monk will try to change the world, one act of unconditional generosity at a time.
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Goblin Squad Member
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We have absolutely no intentions of mercilessly killing anyone, but especially not explorer / cartographers.I think Xeen may have a lower boredom threshold than you then, Bluddwolf...
I am the Master of The UnNamed Company, not the master of its members. As long as they are not too Lawful, too Good or too Evil, they will still fit within the company's Chaotic Neutral world view.
Also, as long as it is not griefing based on our company's definition of griefing, it is also permissible.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Personally, I love exploring. Finding that 'one spot' that nobody else knows and slowly introducing folks to it is always fun.
In regards to the 'Map in the HUD' argument, I'm actually all for it, only under the assumption that the Map only displays what we've found or have a map to.
Maps should fall into some categories:
1) General Maps: Outlines the primary route from NPC town A to NPC town B. Pretty much an idiot-proof guide so you don't take a left at the black stump and end up conversing with the Tasmanian Devil.
2) Player-Made maps: Contains everything that the Map-making Player has found in their travel of that Hex, which means it could be a meandering line of clarity on an otherwise blank sheaf of parchment, or a gloriously detailed map outlining known spawn-locations of specific resource nodes. Price varies upon the amount of information involved, and players can 'fill in' the blank sections on their own.
Naturally, a character who has been exploring should have their own personal 'maps', but here's my pitch.
I'm also all for a 'Map Fade' over time. Say you haven't been back to a Hex in, say, 6 months time, your 'Map' fill have started to fade a little. Nothing that an hour or two here and there exploring again won't repair, but it means that there's always a demand for new Maps to ensure that wandering players can find their way to place X or site Y without spending hours beating around the bushes trying to find their way around.
((apologies, terminology snafu between Australian lingo and American lingo))
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Goblin Squad Member
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This would also warrant discussion about persistence of map elements.
If the regions are largely static, exploration becomes a path for early players but then later players and players who had dedicated a career to exploration get left picking bones.
Having resource nodes and lairs for resident nasties changing would keep some life to the profession. The problem is in the timing. If resource nodes change daily, the information might not be worth a lot. If the resources never change, then only a handful of explorers need to find them for them to become common knowledge and never need updating.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I guess the question is how much does it require to 'tap' out. Assuming fairly static geometry in the landscape, we need to identify things that hang around for several weeks to several months but eventually fade away. If the duration is too short, it may as well be ignored. If it is permanent, then everyone only needs to discover it or buy information once (and will end up on spoiler sites).
Having things in the world that last long enough to organize around and exploit and have potentially come under prolonged conflict if two powerful groups seek to dominate that exploitation would be very well worth finding and very well worth paying for information about so that a buyer can either get there first or try to dislodge someone else.
That would make for pretty awesome gameplay in my opinion.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Lifedragn, I completely agree.
Given Ryan's prior statements about wanting players to be able to sell information to go on other characters' maps, I'm hopeful that he wants explorers to be able to find valuable resource Gathering sites and sell information about them to other organizations that can exploit them.
I'm very curious to find out how long Gathering nodes last, and what the "best practice" will be with respect to exploiting them. Will we leave them unattended and have some way to know when they're being attacked (by players or monsters)? Will we show up in force with a large number of extraction kits and stick around until the job's complete?
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Goblin Squad Member
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A Pathfinder, is an explorer, a pioneer, a scout or a guide...
Caminante, son tus huellas
el camino, y nada más;
caminante,"no hay camino,
se hace camino al andar."Al andar se hace camino,
y al volver la vista atrás
se ve la senda que nunca
se ha de volver a pisar.
Caminante, no hay camino,
sino estelas en la mar.Wanderer, your footsteps are
the road, and nothing more;
wanderer,"there is no road,
the road is made by walking."By walking one makes the road,
and upon glancing back
one sees the path
that must never be trod again.
Wanderer, there is no road—
Only wakes upon the sea.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A Pathfinder, is an explorer, a pioneer, a scout or a guide...Caminante, son tus huellas
el camino, y nada más;
caminante,"no hay camino,
se hace camino al andar."Al andar se hace camino,
y al volver la vista atrás
se ve la senda que nunca
se ha de volver a pisar.
Caminante, no hay camino,
sino estelas en la mar.Wanderer, your footsteps are
the road, and nothing more;
wanderer,"there is no road,
the road is made by walking."By walking one makes the road,
and upon glancing back
one sees the path
that must never be trod again.
Wanderer, there is no road—
Only wakes upon the sea.
Thanks, AvenaOats. I'd never heard of Antonio Machado. Are there many English translations of his work available?
I really love the idea of explorers actually being useful folk, and there being a need for such people to go do their thing - but by the nature of a game like this, it can only last so long, right? There'll come a time, probably not too far in, when just about everything is mapped out to the point that it's readily available knowledge ("Hey, I just rolled a new character, can someone sell me the whole map? Thanks.").
Seems like the inevitable way things will go to me. Am I wrong? I kinda hope so.
Having things in the world that last long enough to organize around and exploit and have potentially come under prolonged conflict if two powerful groups seek to dominate that exploitation would be very well worth finding and very well worth paying for information about so that a buyer can either get there first or try to dislodge someone else.
That would make for pretty awesome gameplay in my opinion.
Agree with that, the long time duration of ressources spots guarantees the nearest settlements value and possible conflicts for them.
On an other hand, as Viscount K says, perhaps a slowly moving world content (ressources, creatures , NPC camps etc) will provide a more realistic experience, and avoid long term camping, ultra domination, and the possibility to buy a full map : exploration will be a real knowledge of actual world and his evolution.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I really love the idea of explorers actually being useful folk, and there being a need for such people to go do their thing - but by the nature of a game like this, it can only last so long, right? There'll come a time, probably not too far in, when just about everything is mapped out to the point that it's readily available knowledge ("Hey, I just rolled a new character, can someone sell me the whole map? Thanks.").
Seems like the inevitable way things will go to me. Am I wrong? I kinda hope so.
Resource Nodes and Dungeons will be valuable locations that are random and ever changing. The layout of the River Kingdoms is not going to be hard to map out. We might get that in the game interface without working for it. The valuable things won't be marked on it until you buy it or find it yourself.